JLs FO LETTER
10-11-2006, 07:56 PM
#31
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by MD114Ever
You're correct. Jack flew the 727 until transitioning to the 11 in the spring of 2003.
Sanwick left the job not too long after his off road excursion. His taxi incident occurred after we had a rash of similar taxi incidents.
10-11-2006, 08:01 PM
#32
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Originally Posted by fly2ski
RedEyE, Got to agree with you on this one. Every time I see EL I wonder how the hell he has kept his job?? The other thing is FDX prides themselves on the hiring process, maybe we need new people in the hiring department. JL go away already
10-11-2006, 08:56 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 122
First Officer Missive
This is just a summary of the letter. It doesn't include the entire letter. I don't want to make the whole thing public that wasn't intended to be public.
Let's talk about RFOs first.
RFOs are a vital part of our operation. If you can only hold RFO, so be it. Look the part, do it right, be prepared. However, if you're senior and you make your living being an RFO, then you're a problem. RFOs should be our most junior F/Os because real pilots want to fly; thus, they should be the F/O on the trip. We do provide opportunity for F/Os to do both jobs, yet some always struggle to maintain currency. I know all about commuting, quality of life, RFO deadheads, two-earner households, pilots married to each other, etc. This job is a balance between personal and professional lives. Flying is what you signed up to do and flying is what you were hired to do. It doesn't matter if you are flying in the Reserves/Guard, commuting from another continent, or finishing up your Masters in Basket Weaving. Flying at FedEx is your primary occupation. Also, paying RFOs the same as F/Os doesn't work for me. The only way an RFO is worth his F/O pay is by being ready to be a good F/O. We have F/Os who don't get 15 landings a year. What are they ready for? If you like cooking for a living, go to Johnson and Wales and change your profession. This is a flying outfit.
Then there's the real First Officers. Every Captain wants a good First Officer and we have plenty of them. Unfortunately, if you look at our 6 major mishaps caused by pilot-error, one F/O gave unbelievably bad advice to the Captain and four others had the F/O at the controls. That's 66% of the flying and 83% causal. Where were the good ones when they were needed?
Certainly every one of these accidents was preventable by the Captain exercising good judgment and there is no attempt here to try to shift responsibility or accountability off of the Captain position. However, 5 of the 6 accidents were also preventable by the First Officer. We have many great First Officers, just like we have great Captains; yet we have 5 of 6 major mishaps that occurred because both of the crewmembers were out to lunch. We hire pilots with experience; however, more and more Captains are coming forward saying they are giving flying lessons to their First Officers. You are supposed to know how to fly when you "make it" to FedEx. What's up there?
Attitude, preparation, ability? It's a major concern.
It takes everyone of us doing the best we can every time we come to work. All of you First Officers are Captains-in-waiting…..you need to look the part, be prepared, and emulate the guy in the left seat. He is the key to your long successful career at FedEx….and he needs good help.
One last thought……if you could hold Memphis wide-body Captain for more than two years, haven't bid a Captain seat, and don't want to, you're part of the problem….. hang up your stripes. It's not a part-time job…we can't use part-time help.
-----------------
My 2 cents...
-- So Jack would prefer a guy with only 50 landings in the airplane to go a month or two with out any landings (RFO lines), over a more senior guy, with 500 landings in the airplane to go with out landings for a month or two? Doesn't sound smart to me.
-- "because real pilots want to fly; thus, they should be the F/O on the trip" - All emotion, no logic here. 'nuff said.
-- I don't know who Jack flies with, but the F/O's and Capt's I fly with have been prepared (as best they could be - FATIGUE!?!), motivated, and professional. We hire the same caliber of folks into the MD-11 as the Bus and Boeing. Time to take a look at the airplane (does standards still decree that an MD-11 and MD-10 land the same?) and a look at fatigue. Fatigue affects decision-making and fine motor skills in the same way as alcohol. I've never flown with a drunk pilot. I've never flown with a pilot that said "I'm fatigued", but I HAVE flown many times with guys that struggle to stay awake, make stupid errors, and show all the signs of being fatigued.
-- What DID the Ender's report say that we pilots are not allowed to hear?
-- The worst landing I've had in the 3 years on the jet happend just recently - vfr, calm wind, perfect day, etc. (shame)...
And this was just a few days after I had been flying AFW hub turns for two weeks... So I bid back to the RFO thing this month... even though I COULD be on the jurasic jet as a Capt.... ugggggg
Let's talk about RFOs first.
RFOs are a vital part of our operation. If you can only hold RFO, so be it. Look the part, do it right, be prepared. However, if you're senior and you make your living being an RFO, then you're a problem. RFOs should be our most junior F/Os because real pilots want to fly; thus, they should be the F/O on the trip. We do provide opportunity for F/Os to do both jobs, yet some always struggle to maintain currency. I know all about commuting, quality of life, RFO deadheads, two-earner households, pilots married to each other, etc. This job is a balance between personal and professional lives. Flying is what you signed up to do and flying is what you were hired to do. It doesn't matter if you are flying in the Reserves/Guard, commuting from another continent, or finishing up your Masters in Basket Weaving. Flying at FedEx is your primary occupation. Also, paying RFOs the same as F/Os doesn't work for me. The only way an RFO is worth his F/O pay is by being ready to be a good F/O. We have F/Os who don't get 15 landings a year. What are they ready for? If you like cooking for a living, go to Johnson and Wales and change your profession. This is a flying outfit.
Then there's the real First Officers. Every Captain wants a good First Officer and we have plenty of them. Unfortunately, if you look at our 6 major mishaps caused by pilot-error, one F/O gave unbelievably bad advice to the Captain and four others had the F/O at the controls. That's 66% of the flying and 83% causal. Where were the good ones when they were needed?
Certainly every one of these accidents was preventable by the Captain exercising good judgment and there is no attempt here to try to shift responsibility or accountability off of the Captain position. However, 5 of the 6 accidents were also preventable by the First Officer. We have many great First Officers, just like we have great Captains; yet we have 5 of 6 major mishaps that occurred because both of the crewmembers were out to lunch. We hire pilots with experience; however, more and more Captains are coming forward saying they are giving flying lessons to their First Officers. You are supposed to know how to fly when you "make it" to FedEx. What's up there?
Attitude, preparation, ability? It's a major concern.
It takes everyone of us doing the best we can every time we come to work. All of you First Officers are Captains-in-waiting…..you need to look the part, be prepared, and emulate the guy in the left seat. He is the key to your long successful career at FedEx….and he needs good help.
One last thought……if you could hold Memphis wide-body Captain for more than two years, haven't bid a Captain seat, and don't want to, you're part of the problem….. hang up your stripes. It's not a part-time job…we can't use part-time help.
-----------------
My 2 cents...
-- So Jack would prefer a guy with only 50 landings in the airplane to go a month or two with out any landings (RFO lines), over a more senior guy, with 500 landings in the airplane to go with out landings for a month or two? Doesn't sound smart to me.
-- "because real pilots want to fly; thus, they should be the F/O on the trip" - All emotion, no logic here. 'nuff said.
-- I don't know who Jack flies with, but the F/O's and Capt's I fly with have been prepared (as best they could be - FATIGUE!?!), motivated, and professional. We hire the same caliber of folks into the MD-11 as the Bus and Boeing. Time to take a look at the airplane (does standards still decree that an MD-11 and MD-10 land the same?) and a look at fatigue. Fatigue affects decision-making and fine motor skills in the same way as alcohol. I've never flown with a drunk pilot. I've never flown with a pilot that said "I'm fatigued", but I HAVE flown many times with guys that struggle to stay awake, make stupid errors, and show all the signs of being fatigued.
-- What DID the Ender's report say that we pilots are not allowed to hear?
-- The worst landing I've had in the 3 years on the jet happend just recently - vfr, calm wind, perfect day, etc. (shame)...
And this was just a few days after I had been flying AFW hub turns for two weeks... So I bid back to the RFO thing this month... even though I COULD be on the jurasic jet as a Capt.... ugggggg
10-12-2006, 01:04 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B-777 Captain
Posts: 943
Just got back from a 2 week asia trip that got extended for a couple of days to pick up a new (new to us) MD-11 that was once a Delta Jet. Also got a good look at the Subic Jet parked off to the side. Really really sad. Along the way I read JL email. While parts of it I can agree with, showing up prepard, know what your doing etc etc other parts I just had to shake my head.
Twice in the last two months I've had to fly thru Hong Kong with absolute minimum crew rest. Reason we kept going ,,, because the next flight is a big dollar flight to FDX. No more. One of the reasons I believe we are having all these accidents is to do to FATIGUE. The company keeps building schedules that littery grind us into the dirt. As several have mentioned the Enders report proably says it all.
The company wants it both ways. Like a squadron skipper that keeps pushing his enlisted men and officers to keep the missions going so to does FDX do the same in the name of the almighty dollar. Don't get me wrong I understand where my paycheck comes from. But now the company is putting new hires in the maddog. Nothing against them and look forward to flying with them but I've been here 18 years and have flown virtually every position on every A/C we own. 10 schools is more than enough. It takes time to learn all this stuff. CFM, stuff, wx, vips, bidding, vacation, D/Hing, where the noodle shop is etc.
Bottom line as I'm getting tired and trying to get back on a normal sleep cycle is this................ WERE GONE TO HAVE ANOTHER ACCIDENT AND ONE OF THESE DAYS SOME IS GOING TO DIE.
Twice in the last two months I've had to fly thru Hong Kong with absolute minimum crew rest. Reason we kept going ,,, because the next flight is a big dollar flight to FDX. No more. One of the reasons I believe we are having all these accidents is to do to FATIGUE. The company keeps building schedules that littery grind us into the dirt. As several have mentioned the Enders report proably says it all.
The company wants it both ways. Like a squadron skipper that keeps pushing his enlisted men and officers to keep the missions going so to does FDX do the same in the name of the almighty dollar. Don't get me wrong I understand where my paycheck comes from. But now the company is putting new hires in the maddog. Nothing against them and look forward to flying with them but I've been here 18 years and have flown virtually every position on every A/C we own. 10 schools is more than enough. It takes time to learn all this stuff. CFM, stuff, wx, vips, bidding, vacation, D/Hing, where the noodle shop is etc.
Bottom line as I'm getting tired and trying to get back on a normal sleep cycle is this................ WERE GONE TO HAVE ANOTHER ACCIDENT AND ONE OF THESE DAYS SOME IS GOING TO DIE.
Last edited by JetJocF14; 10-12-2006 at 01:07 AM. Reason: spelling
10-12-2006, 02:34 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD11 F/O
Posts: 653
Stand by for what?
Originally Posted by JetJocF14
Sorry for the late add-on but when Jack retires in January just like in the military when the XO takes over the squadron he is gonna lay the law down to show who's boss. Stand the ****** by.
10-12-2006, 03:38 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
[QUOTE=
I was recently on a trip as RFO and the FO messed up all 3 of his decents; planning, speed control, everything. Capt had to intervene and "make recomendations" twice. I asked later how long he'd been in the jet and if he bid RFO. Been in the jet 2+ yrs and avoided RFO. I suggested bidding RFO and watching and maybe LEARNING SOMETHING![/QUOTE]
Tell me wha pairing allowed you to watch the same FO with you as RFO do three decents.
I was recently on a trip as RFO and the FO messed up all 3 of his decents; planning, speed control, everything. Capt had to intervene and "make recomendations" twice. I asked later how long he'd been in the jet and if he bid RFO. Been in the jet 2+ yrs and avoided RFO. I suggested bidding RFO and watching and maybe LEARNING SOMETHING![/QUOTE]
Tell me wha pairing allowed you to watch the same FO with you as RFO do three decents.
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