Bravo UPS -- now where are the rest of them?
12-23-2011, 05:59 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jul 2011
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Bravo UPS -- now where are the rest of them?
This is what we should be doing.. a class action or some kind of combined effort suit to get this turned over..
ALPA needs to get involved and stop the empty rhetoric..
UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Businessweek
ALPA needs to get involved and stop the empty rhetoric..
UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Businessweek
12-23-2011, 06:09 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 331
So True
Originally Posted by FailOperational
This is what we should be doing.. a class action or some kind of combined effort suit to get this turned over..
ALPA needs to get involved and stop the empty rhetoric..
UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Businessweek
ALPA needs to get involved and stop the empty rhetoric..
UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Businessweek
12-23-2011, 07:53 AM
#4
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
You got to give UPS management a salute (you decide the type 
) for the chutzpah of publicly patting themselves on the back for their "win".
I think FedEx management will be much more "closed door" with their praise of the cargo cutout..
) for the chutzpah of publicly patting themselves on the back for their "win". I think FedEx management will be much more "closed door" with their praise of the cargo cutout..
12-23-2011, 08:43 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
It may not pick up steam until a cargo accident kills people on the ground, but there's plenty of fodder for it.
The DOT said the proposal was science based, and would significantly increase public safety.
"This is a major safety achievement," said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. "We made a promise to the traveling public that we would do everything possible to make sure pilots are rested when they get in the cockpit. This new rule raises the safety bar to prevent fatigue."
"This new rule gives pilots enough time to get the rest they really need to safely get passengers to their destinations," said FAA Acting Administrator Michael Huerta.
The DOT, Mr. LaHood and Mr. Huerta claim it's o.k. for freight pilots to NOT get enough rest. When you choose not to apply the rules declared necessary to ensure proper rest you're saying cargo pilots don't really have to be rested. Over and over again they say the new rules are based on science. I'm pretty sure cargo pilots are affected by scientific factors as much the pax guys. I don't remember any sort of special "cargo" sleep cycle test during my FAA checkrides.
Keep telling cargo we're required to show up as rested as the passenger guys. Stating it's the pilot's responsibility to show up rested really hasn't worked very well, has it? That's why the pax guys now have new rules. When you abdicate your responsibility to regulate I guess that's the best you can come up with.
The promise that was made to "do everything possible to prevent fatigue" and make air travel safe (not my words) has not been kept despite the claim it was. Is LaHood secretly trying to tell us he failed to prevent the fatigue that puts passengers in danger? Anybody watch the news conference? Was he blinking his eyes to communicate an S.O.S.?
They're literally asking for a lawsuit.
The DOT said the proposal was science based, and would significantly increase public safety.
"This is a major safety achievement," said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. "We made a promise to the traveling public that we would do everything possible to make sure pilots are rested when they get in the cockpit. This new rule raises the safety bar to prevent fatigue."
"This new rule gives pilots enough time to get the rest they really need to safely get passengers to their destinations," said FAA Acting Administrator Michael Huerta.
Keep telling cargo we're required to show up as rested as the passenger guys. Stating it's the pilot's responsibility to show up rested really hasn't worked very well, has it? That's why the pax guys now have new rules. When you abdicate your responsibility to regulate I guess that's the best you can come up with.
The promise that was made to "do everything possible to prevent fatigue" and make air travel safe (not my words) has not been kept despite the claim it was. Is LaHood secretly trying to tell us he failed to prevent the fatigue that puts passengers in danger? Anybody watch the news conference? Was he blinking his eyes to communicate an S.O.S.?
They're literally asking for a lawsuit.
Last edited by Gunter; 12-23-2011 at 10:40 AM.
12-23-2011, 09:46 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 99
I think everyone is looking at this all wrong. We have to start looking at all of the other far's that we can be exempted from since we are cargo carriers.
*No more 250 below 10.
*No more need for a valid medical.
*No need for recurrent training.
*No need for line checks.
*No need for current maintenance.
*No need for alternates.
The list goes on.....
We can easily prove to the FAA that these things are too costly to continue to enforce and should therefore be exempted. How nice would it be to fly the rest of your career not ever having to worry about enforcement action.
We can also submit new taglines for the FAA. "Safety is no accident, unless you are a cargo pilot"
"The FAA, providing two levels of safety, a good one and a not so good one."
*No more 250 below 10.
*No more need for a valid medical.
*No need for recurrent training.
*No need for line checks.
*No need for current maintenance.
*No need for alternates.
The list goes on.....
We can easily prove to the FAA that these things are too costly to continue to enforce and should therefore be exempted. How nice would it be to fly the rest of your career not ever having to worry about enforcement action.
We can also submit new taglines for the FAA. "Safety is no accident, unless you are a cargo pilot"
"The FAA, providing two levels of safety, a good one and a not so good one."
12-23-2011, 11:17 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: MD11 CPT
Posts: 1,077
Originally Posted by FailOperational
This is what we should be doing.. a class action or some kind of combined effort suit to get this turned over..
ALPA needs to get involved and stop the empty rhetoric..
UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Businessweek
ALPA needs to get involved and stop the empty rhetoric..
UPS Pilots Union to Sue FAA Over Exemption From Rest Rules - Businessweek
Fred might get mad and cancel aircraft orders.
Enjoy negotiations fellas.
12-23-2011, 01:26 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: UPS Captain
Posts: 837
When the FAA said "too costly" for cargo carriers, I do not think they had UPS/FedEx in mind. I would imagine both of those carriers current /future contracts are fairly restrictive on rest rules.
Just my opinion.
It is pretty funny watching Lahood talk about this extensive study regarding fatigue. How rested pilots are safer pilots. It will improve safety. Save lives. But not for everyone. There was a dollar cost to human life that he as head of the FAA is willing to accept. I guess safety comes at a price.
Just my opinion.
It is pretty funny watching Lahood talk about this extensive study regarding fatigue. How rested pilots are safer pilots. It will improve safety. Save lives. But not for everyone. There was a dollar cost to human life that he as head of the FAA is willing to accept. I guess safety comes at a price.
12-23-2011, 11:25 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,109
I think the biggest impact to FDX would have been the difficulty in extensions. Fairly commonplace now and used often. The new rules make it tough on Companies. Besides that I see very little that would affect current system form.
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