Military Leave Policy Reminder
08-11-2014, 06:36 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Originally Posted by kwri10s
If "someone" calls your commander unless that commander can verify exactly who he/she is talking to, they should never give out OPSEC info. Even verifying data is a major OPSEC violation if you do not know exactly who you are talking to. Confirming a service members location and duty schedule to an unknown person on a phone is a major NO-NO.
Anyone can call a unit and pretend to be Gen XX. It could be someone who actually was/is a General, or someone who lives down the street from the member who wants the data for unknown reasons.
Your commander should assure the caller, that the member has complied with required USERA notification. The commander can confirm with the member, that he/she is performing duty if the commander wants. Unless someone showed me a DOD ID and I knew they required knowledge of the members schedule, I would be hard pressed to give out any specific information. Even confirming the member is in your unit to an unknown person on the phone is giving privileged information away.
I've seen schedulers give out more info to someone they did not know via the phone, than they would ever give out to even their next door neighbor who they do know. Think of a phone call to a unit as a random telemarketing phone call and you will usually be fine.
Anyone can call a unit and pretend to be Gen XX. It could be someone who actually was/is a General, or someone who lives down the street from the member who wants the data for unknown reasons.
Your commander should assure the caller, that the member has complied with required USERA notification. The commander can confirm with the member, that he/she is performing duty if the commander wants. Unless someone showed me a DOD ID and I knew they required knowledge of the members schedule, I would be hard pressed to give out any specific information. Even confirming the member is in your unit to an unknown person on the phone is giving privileged information away.
I've seen schedulers give out more info to someone they did not know via the phone, than they would ever give out to even their next door neighbor who they do know. Think of a phone call to a unit as a random telemarketing phone call and you will usually be fine.
08-16-2014, 04:39 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,622
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Read the post on page 3 with a longer cut and post of the rules. I can tell you from personal experience that if you have orders and wait until you feel it's convenient to notify you will not be backed up under The current rules.
I served a long time in the reserves. The ability to use mil leave is a great benefit. Guys who abuse that benefit put the whole process at risk. Using mil leave as a anti company tool in contract negotiations certainly qualifies as abuse.
I served a long time in the reserves. The ability to use mil leave is a great benefit. Guys who abuse that benefit put the whole process at risk. Using mil leave as a anti company tool in contract negotiations certainly qualifies as abuse.
First, on day one, the company sent a retired 2-star to coerce us into not taking military leave. And he elevated his threat by saying that he doesn't talk to squadron commanders. He talks directly to O-6s and above. At previous company, they welcomed those in the military, thanked us for our service, and asked us for advance notice when able. They didn't demand it or threaten to call your Group/Wing Commander. Nobody needs that kind of stress and hassle.
Second, the Air Force is so screwed up. I rarely if ever get orders in hand before performing military duty. In fact, I still don't have orders for the last three military duties I performed! I've given advance notice to the company before and had the orders canceled. Going without a paycheck for a month really sucks!
Lastly, your comment about being able to take military leave is not a benefit. It's a right afforded by federal law. And we need to move away from this thinking that it's a benefit. Why? Calling it a benefit makes it sound like there's beer, fun, and unicorns involved. It creates jealously among the crew force who can't take military leave. The truth is, it's a real pain, has a huge hassle factor, endless paperwork, computer based training and briefings ... then there's all the flying stuff, some of which is dangerous! If it weren't for the promise of padding my retirement, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.
Don't get me wrong, I love to serve and I am glad to do so. However, the animosity created by the company doesn't help anyone. This is a leadership failure problem at its core.
08-16-2014, 05:03 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
First, on day one, the company sent a retired 2-star to coerce us into not taking military leave. And he elevated his threat by saying that he doesn't talk to squadron commanders. He talks directly to O-6s and above.
"I don't talk to retired 2-star generals about my military duty, my ALPA attorney goes direct to labor relations for me"
08-16-2014, 05:23 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by Gunter
Sucks to be on probation....But if not,
"I don't talk to retired 2-star generals about my military duty, my ALPA attorney goes direct to labor relations for me"
"I don't talk to retired 2-star generals about my military duty, my ALPA attorney goes direct to labor relations for me"
From my experience ALPA didn't assist me in a Mil issue I had, but USERRA did step up after I called them.
Of course that was more than a couple of years ago...
08-16-2014, 06:27 PM
#57
Permanent Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,677
Originally Posted by YYESIAV8
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this...but your ALPA attorney will not talk to the company about your Mil Leave. Mil Leave is between you, the Company and the Military. There are no direct provisions in our CBA protecting your Mil Leave rights. That is left to USERRA.
From my experience ALPA didn't assist me in a Mil issue I had, but USERRA did step up after I called them.
Of course that was more than a couple of years ago...
From my experience ALPA didn't assist me in a Mil issue I had, but USERRA did step up after I called them.
Of course that was more than a couple of years ago...
"USERRA" is a federal law, not an entity.
08-17-2014, 07:17 PM
#59
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 798
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
I know you were referring to my post. Let me explain the position I'm in and why I feel the way I do.
First, on day one, the company sent a retired 2-star to coerce us into not taking military leave. And he elevated his threat by saying that he doesn't talk to squadron commanders. He talks directly to O-6s and above. At previous company, they welcomed those in the military, thanked us for our service, and asked us for advance notice when able. They didn't demand it or threaten to call your Group/Wing Commander. Nobody needs that kind of stress and hassle.
Second, the Air Force is so screwed up. I rarely if ever get orders in hand before performing military duty. In fact, I still don't have orders for the last three military duties I performed! I've given advance notice to the company before and had the orders canceled. Going without a paycheck for a month really sucks!
Lastly, your comment about being able to take military leave is not a benefit. It's a right afforded by federal law. And we need to move away from this thinking that it's a benefit. Why? Calling it a benefit makes it sound like there's beer, fun, and unicorns involved. It creates jealously among the crew force who can't take military leave. The truth is, it's a real pain, has a huge hassle factor, endless paperwork, computer based training and briefings ... then there's all the flying stuff, some of which is dangerous! If it weren't for the promise of padding my retirement, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.
Don't get me wrong, I love to serve and I am glad to do so. However, the animosity created by the company doesn't help anyone. This is a leadership failure problem at its core.
First, on day one, the company sent a retired 2-star to coerce us into not taking military leave. And he elevated his threat by saying that he doesn't talk to squadron commanders. He talks directly to O-6s and above. At previous company, they welcomed those in the military, thanked us for our service, and asked us for advance notice when able. They didn't demand it or threaten to call your Group/Wing Commander. Nobody needs that kind of stress and hassle.
Second, the Air Force is so screwed up. I rarely if ever get orders in hand before performing military duty. In fact, I still don't have orders for the last three military duties I performed! I've given advance notice to the company before and had the orders canceled. Going without a paycheck for a month really sucks!
Lastly, your comment about being able to take military leave is not a benefit. It's a right afforded by federal law. And we need to move away from this thinking that it's a benefit. Why? Calling it a benefit makes it sound like there's beer, fun, and unicorns involved. It creates jealously among the crew force who can't take military leave. The truth is, it's a real pain, has a huge hassle factor, endless paperwork, computer based training and briefings ... then there's all the flying stuff, some of which is dangerous! If it weren't for the promise of padding my retirement, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.
Don't get me wrong, I love to serve and I am glad to do so. However, the animosity created by the company doesn't help anyone. This is a leadership failure problem at its core.
Many, but not all, are probably aware of the harassment that was suffered by our military folks from the last "wave" of hiring.
These folks were questioned, pressured, and prodded at an unprecedented rate regarding their mil leave. Their integrity was questioned and in several cases their probation was unilaterally extended by the CP. I had the displeasure of both fielding these calls and mentoring these same folks as a crewmember. Frankly, I was embarrassed for the company.
In the end, our probationary brethren were defenseless and elected to keep their heads down, rather than risk confrontation. I can tell you with absolute certainty about pilots that specifically asked to be largely relieved of their military obligations while on probation out of fear for their jobs. That was, in my opinion, completely unacceptable and in direct conflict with the statements made in the most recent missive on the subject (as well as USERRA).
I guess clubbing baby seals is ok in some circles too.
Pipe
08-17-2014, 07:47 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by pipe
clubbing baby seals is ok...
Pipe
I am convinced something like the above is spoken when deciding how to deal with management challenges (crew members).
They will club until the seals club back.
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