whalesurfer

In general I agree with you. That's how things work at a "normal" airline. Hard to explain how things work here, even after years of working as a brown fast-feeder you still end up scratching your head all the time.

They violate our contract all the time. Ask anyone who's tried to trip trade or move his/her reserve days. "Denied - insufficient coverage" is the most common response. We even have an "et al" grievance for this although, according to our union (PS), very few people ever end up filing.
So even though most of the QOL improvements come from bodies "ahead" of you, yes, the extra bodies "behind" would improve our quality of life too.
PS. DLax85 is also right. However, furlough protection or rather lessening of the furlough risk IS a huge QoL improvement to most pilots. Unfortunately, here at brown it's something we'll always have to worry about. So 10% more pilots (more like 15% or more for night operators) would be HUGE.

109% IPA!

whalesurfer

Exactly. ..and chances of both pilots agreeing to it here are virtually non-existent. Which is one of the reasons the company is fighting this regulation so hard.

DLax85

First, don't get me wrong --- I think the new duty rules should apply to cargo pilots for safety reasons, but my statement is just about the much more general debate on...how guys hired behind you effect your QOL ---- IMHO they don't

My QOL is a function of my "bid power"

How much of the bid pack, which I want to fly, can I control...??

For me, as a commuter, it's "hard lines"

So I'm concerned about "hard line bidpack control"

If one also likes sitting Reserve, an increase in the choices there would be a valid improvement --- but if you like B reserve, and they just add on more A reserve and R24 lines that won't really affect your QOL

You could argue, others more senior to you may take those A reserve or R24 lines, and that too would be a valid argument, but my point is too many guys get caught up in what they're bidding percentage wise --- or even the raw number

My question to them --- but how is your bidpack?

...stable, growing, declining??

Many senior guys in the 727 who tried to ride that plane into the sunset found out the hard way --- and many Airbus & MD-11 guys are slowly learning that too

Of course, if some of our trips were to change because of new limitations --- no more 2 leg trips into and out of a hub turn --- then yes, that improves QOL, but that's changing another variable in our discussion --- my statement was more about ""with all else equal"

If I recall correctly, the FAA duty limit for our most common hub turn trips would be reduced to about 11 hrs

Many of the trips would still be flyable/turnable, but there wouldn't be much wiggle room

Pilots would "time out" much quicker when bad weather affected the sort & outbound launch in MEM, IND, EWR etc...and the company would have no magic "operational emergency" wand to increase your duty day.

The company would be forced to have a lot more guys sitting Reserve --- most likely A Reserve

Or R24 guys sitting Hotel Stbys

I believe Fedex stated they'd have to hire about 800 more pilots and that's how they showed such a large increase in costs

Some Bottom line thoughts relative to the statement being debated...

I see a lot of guys starting to get excited about the 200 pilots Fedex mgmt is "authorized" to hire next year

OK --- that's an increase in my job security

However, I'll truly get excited when I see the retirements reach/exceed that same number

IMHO, that's when I'll see my "hard line bidpack power" and QOL truly increase

(...all else equal, of course)

Shaggy1970

A few observations:

Fatigue is and always will be inherent to this business, no regulation will fix this problem . FAA or for that matter any regulatory agency does not care how these companies run there operation, they have shown that time and time again.

With the recent decline in oil prices, the obscene profits these companies are making are only going to become more disgusting and improve their bottom line. These companies don't care about anyone of us and just want the airplanes moved at almost any cost.

The only light at the end of the tunnel is, negotiation committees thru collective bargaining agreements, coming up with language that will mitigate and reduce the risk associated with fatigue and paying us sizable portion of the said profits for our labor! The mantra F U Pay me comes to mind! Anyone have a tee shirt ideas that we can wear under our shirts that bleeds thru and say's FUPM? That will be good union dues spent.

PotatoChip

Cargo pilots' lives matter!!!

whalesurfer

At the Air Line Pilots Association's Air Safety Forum last month, Fraser, the Federal Aviation Administration's chief air surgeon, said the FAA's exclusion of cargo pilots from new fatigue rules was done for political reasons. Fraser said the aviation professionals at the FAA understand that there is no difference between pilots who fly cargo and pilots who carry passengers, other than the fact that cargo carriers' management complained that increased rest for pilots would cost too much
...
In Washington, they say you should always "follow the money." The trail is obvious: UPS and FedEx, the nation's largest cargo airlines, have spent more than $140 million in lobbying and political contributions since President Obama took office. Small wonder that this administration carved cargo pilots out of the rule...

Source:
Cargo pilot hours should be regulated, too: Column

aviatorhi

Keep whining away, I'm just happy my one flight that is 10 minutes over what the 117 limit is (with all extensions, etc.) get's to stay the way it is and I get to go home every night rather than RONing somewhere I don't want to.

And the next guy who says that cargo flying is just as fatigue inducing as passenger flying, get a grip on yourself.

LightAttack

I can't sleep!

Knots2U

Yes, but it only matters, if they have an accident or incident, that has collateral damage, like to a school, apartment building, office building, etc. Now, if something like that happens, due to crew fatigue, then I'm sure there will be a lot of attention, and finger pointing going on. Until that happens, (and, God forbid, it ever does), nobody will ever care about the lives of cargo pilots.

In the meantime, we will continue to get letters from the company, telling us that safety is our first concern, and that nothing is more important than safety. Well, as far as I'm concerned, those letters, just like this ruling from the FAA, is b.s. If it was their primary concern, then they would adopt the scheduling parameters of the new rules, regardless of wether or not they are required to do so.

Really sad state of affairs.........

DCA A321 FO

Did it coming off a rest day at CHQ, scheduler was like, W.T.F?