Atlas Interview Dec 1,2 and forward
12-10-2017, 03:06 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by tahoejace
Not much to say. This is further maneuvering to acheive management's end game of forcing an amalgamated contract that is sub standard in every possible way. Now, it comes down to who has the smartest lawyers.
12-10-2017, 06:53 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by kolt66
I'm curious what happened after Atlas acquired Polar many years ago. Polar pilots are now Atlas pilots, right? Did Atlas force an amalgamated contract that lowered the quality of the Atlas contract at the time?
12-10-2017, 07:46 PM
#23
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Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Crusoe
Yes to both.
12-11-2017, 08:51 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
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Posts: 1,290
Originally Posted by kolt66
So... Atlas bought Polar in 2001 and it wasn't until 2011 that an amalgamated contract was signed. Do you think it could also take up to 10 years before Atlas gets an amalgamated contract with Southern, if ever?
12-11-2017, 11:55 AM
#25
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Posts: 97
Add to that the fact that if the company wins the next lawsuit and an amalgamated contact is eventually forced down our collective throats, it will virtually guarantee another decade until there is even the slightest chance of getting a decent contract (one that the pilots get to actually vote on). But then they could just buy another bottom feeder.... wash, rinse, repeat all over again. Meaning you could go an entire career here and never get to vote on a CBA.
Think this is hyperbole & that it wouldn’t happen? Atlas just celebrated its 25th anniversary - the pilots have been able to vote ONCE during that entire quarter century. Amalgamation equates directly to a terrible, subterranean-level contract because it removes virtually all the pilot group’s leverage and control over the outcome. Except of course for the leverage of people avoiding coming here in the first place & the ever growing tidal wave of attrition due to the toxicity, ineptitude & broken promises that have squandered all the tremendous potential that this place once held.
Think this is hyperbole & that it wouldn’t happen? Atlas just celebrated its 25th anniversary - the pilots have been able to vote ONCE during that entire quarter century. Amalgamation equates directly to a terrible, subterranean-level contract because it removes virtually all the pilot group’s leverage and control over the outcome. Except of course for the leverage of people avoiding coming here in the first place & the ever growing tidal wave of attrition due to the toxicity, ineptitude & broken promises that have squandered all the tremendous potential that this place once held.
12-11-2017, 12:20 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Crusoe
Add to that the fact that if the company wins the next lawsuit and an amalgamated contact is eventually forced down our collective throats, it will virtually guarantee another decade until there is even the slightest chance of getting a decent contract (one that the pilots get to actually vote on). But then they could just buy another bottom feeder.... wash, rinse, repeat all over again. Meaning you could go an entire career here and never get to vote on a CBA.
Think this is hyperbole & that it wouldn’t happen? Atlas just celebrated its 25th anniversary - the pilots have been able to vote ONCE during that entire quarter century. Amalgamation equates directly to a terrible, subterranean-level contract because it removes virtually all the pilot group’s leverage and control over the outcome. Except of course for the leverage of people avoiding coming here in the first place & the ever growing tidal wave of attrition due to the toxicity, ineptitude & broken promises that have squandered all the tremendous potential that this place once held.
Think this is hyperbole & that it wouldn’t happen? Atlas just celebrated its 25th anniversary - the pilots have been able to vote ONCE during that entire quarter century. Amalgamation equates directly to a terrible, subterranean-level contract because it removes virtually all the pilot group’s leverage and control over the outcome. Except of course for the leverage of people avoiding coming here in the first place & the ever growing tidal wave of attrition due to the toxicity, ineptitude & broken promises that have squandered all the tremendous potential that this place once held.
12-11-2017, 01:05 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 80
It's because Atlas's CBA has the language in it that allows almagamation. Other airlines have better scope/ Mergers & Acquisitions language. The Teamsters' argument is that regular negotiations were already in progress when the southern acquisition occurred, so the almagation/arbitration part of the contract should not apply and traditional (section 6) negotiations should continue. That's what the courts have to decide.
The problem is that if management gets to amalgmate, that language will probably stay in there for the next round of negotations in 10 years.....and then maybe they could be another bankrupt-low paid airline and get to amalgamate again.....and again the next time 10 years after that. I'm sure there will always be such an operator available to acquire in MIA if not CVG. It will keep happening until pilots are replaced by automated drones or an Aribtrator decides to help pilots change it (hahaha yeah right).
This was given to Atlas by an arbitrator in the polar merger CBA, and if we get another arbitrated contract we'll probably get the language again, it'll be an iron ball dragging Atlas Pilots down to the bottom of the industry as long as it's there.
The problem is that if management gets to amalgmate, that language will probably stay in there for the next round of negotations in 10 years.....and then maybe they could be another bankrupt-low paid airline and get to amalgamate again.....and again the next time 10 years after that. I'm sure there will always be such an operator available to acquire in MIA if not CVG. It will keep happening until pilots are replaced by automated drones or an Aribtrator decides to help pilots change it (hahaha yeah right).
This was given to Atlas by an arbitrator in the polar merger CBA, and if we get another arbitrated contract we'll probably get the language again, it'll be an iron ball dragging Atlas Pilots down to the bottom of the industry as long as it's there.
Originally Posted by Atlas Contract
If the crewmembers of the acquired carrier are represented by the Union, then the parties shall on a timely basis begin negotiations to merge the two preintegration collective bargaining agreements into one
2011 Contract | Section 1 (8)
agreement. If a merged agreement has not been executed within nine (9) months from the date that the Union presents to the Company a merged seniority list that complies with the provisions of this paragraph F.2, the parties shall jointly submit the outstanding issues to binding interest arbitration, The interest arbitration shall commence within thirty (30) days from the conclusion of negotiations contemplated by this paragraph, and a final decision shall be issued within sixty (60) days after the commencement of the arbitration.
2011 Contract | Section 1 (8)
agreement. If a merged agreement has not been executed within nine (9) months from the date that the Union presents to the Company a merged seniority list that complies with the provisions of this paragraph F.2, the parties shall jointly submit the outstanding issues to binding interest arbitration, The interest arbitration shall commence within thirty (30) days from the conclusion of negotiations contemplated by this paragraph, and a final decision shall be issued within sixty (60) days after the commencement of the arbitration.
Last edited by LoneStarM1A; 12-11-2017 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Grammar
12-11-2017, 01:09 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Sr. VP of button pushing
Posts: 2,718
Who you going to buy? Alaska spent about 4 billion to acquire Virgin. They went through an arbitration and while the VA pilots got a significant raise, the Alaska pilots don't seem that happy. There are a few second and third tier cargo outfits you can play this game with but not many options on the passenger side.
12-11-2017, 01:23 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Twin Wasp
Who you going to buy? Alaska spent about 4 billion to acquire Virgin. They went through an arbitration and while the VA pilots got a significant raise, the Alaska pilots don't seem that happy. There are a few second and third tier cargo outfits you can play this game with but not many options on the passenger side.
12-11-2017, 01:36 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by LoneStarM1A
It's because Atlas's CBA has the language in it that allows almagamation. Other airlines have better scope/ Mergers & Acquisitions language. The Teamster's argument is that regular negotiations were already in progress when the southern acquisition occurred, so the almagation/arbitration part of the contract should not apply and traditional (section 6) negotiations should continue. That's what the courts have to decide.
The problem is that if management gets to amalgmate, that language will probably stay in there for the next round of negotations in 10 years.....and then maybe they could be another bankrupt-low paid airline and get to amalgamate again.....and again the next time 10 years after that. I'm sure there will always be such an operator available to acquire in MIA if not CVG. It will keep happening until pilots are replaced by automated drones or an Aribtrator decides to help pilots change it (hahaha yeah right).
This was given to Atlas by an arbitrator in the polar merger CBA, and if we get another arbitrated contract we'll probably get the language again, it'll be an iron ball dragging Atlas down to the bottom of the industry as long as it's there.
The problem is that if management gets to amalgmate, that language will probably stay in there for the next round of negotations in 10 years.....and then maybe they could be another bankrupt-low paid airline and get to amalgamate again.....and again the next time 10 years after that. I'm sure there will always be such an operator available to acquire in MIA if not CVG. It will keep happening until pilots are replaced by automated drones or an Aribtrator decides to help pilots change it (hahaha yeah right).
This was given to Atlas by an arbitrator in the polar merger CBA, and if we get another arbitrated contract we'll probably get the language again, it'll be an iron ball dragging Atlas down to the bottom of the industry as long as it's there.
If the Union has done this it sounds like it will go to arbitration fairly quickly. At one point in all of this do you think Atlas pilots are prepared to strike?
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