A Hall For The Hopefuls
06-01-2019, 06:27 PM
#351
What's a weekend?
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Widget FO
Posts: 457
Just sent in my app with 1364 TT and 13 ME. Hoping for CPZ or Horizon but I've heard Horizon class dates are booked till like November and CPZ seemed faster. Just want to be West coast based and preferably flying the E-Jet over the CRJ.
06-01-2019, 08:05 PM
#353
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by Avgeek7248
Just sent in my app with 1364 TT and 13 ME. Hoping for CPZ or Horizon but I've heard Horizon class dates are booked till like November and CPZ seemed faster. Just want to be West coast based and preferably flying the E-Jet over the CRJ.
Worst that’s going to happen though for guys like you who have barely ante’d up is that you are going to cash out with an ATP, a type rating, and 4-5 hundred hours of TSIC to give you a running head start at Horizon or Skywest.
Considering what it cost you to accumulate your current ratings and 13 hrs of ME, actually getting PAID while you accumulate a rating and 500 hrs of turbine ME ought to be a heck of a good deal.
So good luck, hope you get the call, and welcome aboard.
And should you decide to go Horizon instead, try to avoid the Q or at least read in the Horizon threads the issues with staffing an airframe that is being phased out. Either way, good luck.
06-02-2019, 07:00 AM
#354
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 358
Is it correct to assume the only thing relating TSA and Compass is the holding company? Nothing in management? Cant seem to find too much negativity around compass beyond the delta unknowns but at TSA junior manning, unhappy staff, etc - but really it's hard to decipher from online research. I have had a few anecdotes where I hear offline to avoid tsa and compass is a good choice. Skywest, Compass and TSA are really my options for a DEN and PHX based flying. well i guess Mesa is but..
06-02-2019, 08:58 AM
#355
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by stang
Is it correct to assume the only thing relating TSA and Compass is the holding company? Nothing in management? Cant seem to find too much negativity around compass beyond the delta unknowns but at TSA junior manning, unhappy staff, etc - but really it's hard to decipher from online research. I have had a few anecdotes where I hear offline to avoid tsa and compass is a good choice. Skywest, Compass and TSA are really my options for a DEN and PHX based flying. well i guess Mesa is but..
Regionals per se are sort of labile. I often find myself reminding people that until ten years ago, Compass was a Delta wholly owned.
The plain fact if the matter is that all regionals are expendable. The list of regional airlines (or even major airlines) that have at least briefly been THE PLACE TO BE and then subsequently gone bankrupt is a long one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States
And the number of people who - at least at the regional level - have lost seniority and had to start over again somewhere else is legion. At the major airline level it’s usually a merger and the two pilot unions get to spend a few contentious years dealing with the seniority list integration. The bad feelings between the Virgin America and the Alaska pilots still lingers.
There basically are two philosophies and I personally subscribe to the minority view.
The majority view is to go somewhere you believe you would be willing to spend ten years if you got stuck there. That’s generally considered to be Skywest, Republic, or one of the wholly owneds.
Personally, I believe things are too unpredictable for that. Any of these can go bankrupt just as easily as anyone else. A REAL bankruptcy, or just a strategic one like Republic did to be able to get out if their fifty seater flying. Corporations have all learned how to play bankruptcy courts to their own advantage and - for airlines - they can manipulate the RLA to an even greater degree. And they’ll furlough you in a heartbeat if it serves their purpose.
My philosophy is to do whatever you can to avoid being stuck for ten years in a regional. That means chasing 121 flying hours in general and TPIC in particular, so my plan is to go where there is lots of flying, relatively short reserve times, and relatively quick upgrade. That detracts from quality of life at a regional generally, but optimizes the process of getting through quickly, which with the peak of the major airline hiring wave hitting in three or four years, I would really like to do.
YMMV, however. Pay your penny and take your pick.
What would I do? Go with Compass, ride that horse until it’s obvious there are better short term opportunities and then jump to them. If a year from now you wind up having been at your base of choice for a year, and Compass loses flying, take your type rating and your 750 hours and go be a near dec somewhere else, whatever it takes.
Compass is a better regional than most, at least in the short term, but a good regional isn’t the long term goal. Don’t be brand loyal out of some misplaced ideal of loyalty to the regional. Everyone of them will drop you like the proverbial hot rock if it suits their purpose. Once you’ve fulfilled your legal obligation to them, do whatever’s best for you.
06-02-2019, 09:28 AM
#356
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Position: Line holder
Posts: 513
Originally Posted by Excargodog
The plain fact if the matter is that all regionals are expendable. The list of regional airlines (or even major airlines) that have at least briefly been THE PLACE TO BE and then subsequently gone bankrupt is a long one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States
And the number of people who - at least at the regional level - have lost seniority and had to start over again somewhere else is legion. At the major airline level it’s usually a merger and the two pilot unions get to spend a few contentious years dealing with the seniority list integration. The bad feelings between the Virgin America and the Alaska pilots still lingers.
There basically are two philosophies and I personally subscribe to the minority view.
The majority view is to go somewhere you believe you would be willing to spend ten years if you got stuck there. That’s generally considered to be Skywest, Republic, or one of the wholly owneds.
Personally, I believe things are too unpredictable for that. Any of these can go bankrupt just as easily as anyone else. A REAL bankruptcy, or just a strategic one like Republic did to be able to get out if their fifty seater flying. Corporations have all learned how to play bankruptcy courts to their own advantage and - for airlines - they can manipulate the RLA to an even greater degree. And they’ll furlough you in a heartbeat if it serves their purpose.
My philosophy is to do whatever you can to avoid being stuck for ten years in a regional. That means chasing 121 flying hours in general and TPIC in particular, so my plan is to go where there is lots of flying, relatively short reserve times, and relatively quick upgrade. That detracts from quality of life at a regional generally, but optimizes the process of getting through quickly, which with the peak of the major airline hiring wave hitting in three or four years, I would really like to do....Everyone of them will drop you like the proverbial hot rock if it suits their purpose. Once you’ve fulfilled your legal obligation to them, do whatever’s best for you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States
And the number of people who - at least at the regional level - have lost seniority and had to start over again somewhere else is legion. At the major airline level it’s usually a merger and the two pilot unions get to spend a few contentious years dealing with the seniority list integration. The bad feelings between the Virgin America and the Alaska pilots still lingers.
There basically are two philosophies and I personally subscribe to the minority view.
The majority view is to go somewhere you believe you would be willing to spend ten years if you got stuck there. That’s generally considered to be Skywest, Republic, or one of the wholly owneds.
Personally, I believe things are too unpredictable for that. Any of these can go bankrupt just as easily as anyone else. A REAL bankruptcy, or just a strategic one like Republic did to be able to get out if their fifty seater flying. Corporations have all learned how to play bankruptcy courts to their own advantage and - for airlines - they can manipulate the RLA to an even greater degree. And they’ll furlough you in a heartbeat if it serves their purpose.
My philosophy is to do whatever you can to avoid being stuck for ten years in a regional. That means chasing 121 flying hours in general and TPIC in particular, so my plan is to go where there is lots of flying, relatively short reserve times, and relatively quick upgrade. That detracts from quality of life at a regional generally, but optimizes the process of getting through quickly, which with the peak of the major airline hiring wave hitting in three or four years, I would really like to do....Everyone of them will drop you like the proverbial hot rock if it suits their purpose. Once you’ve fulfilled your legal obligation to them, do whatever’s best for you.
WISE WORDS!!!
Want an idea what future will look like? Look BACK at LAST ten years...then assume won’t be same (pilot shortage, scope issues, start-ups challenging majors, etc...) and take your best guess. Never having furloughed before or having a flow agreement sound great...until BK or new management’s decision “to go in a different direction.”
Besides change, the only thing I can count on is my personal experience. That’s never getting taken away. So I am building TPIC, experience and my resume. Everything else can be gone with the stroke of a pen, email, or an incident/accident.
Good luck to everyone, it’s a crazy industry.
06-02-2019, 02:08 PM
#357
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 358
Originally Posted by Excargodog
The same holding company, but the parent holding company does exert their influence. But there are different contracts with different terms that are at least to some degree enforceable. But there’s more to it than that.
Regionals per se are sort of labile. I often find myself reminding people that until ten years ago, Compass was a Delta wholly owned.
The plain fact if the matter is that all regionals are expendable. The list of regional airlines (or even major airlines) that have at least briefly been THE PLACE TO BE and then subsequently gone bankrupt is a long one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States
And the number of people who - at least at the regional level - have lost seniority and had to start over again somewhere else is legion. At the major airline level it’s usually a merger and the two pilot unions get to spend a few contentious years dealing with the seniority list integration. The bad feelings between the Virgin America and the Alaska pilots still lingers.
There basically are two philosophies and I personally subscribe to the minority view.
The majority view is to go somewhere you believe you would be willing to spend ten years if you got stuck there. That’s generally considered to be Skywest, Republic, or one of the wholly owneds.
Personally, I believe things are too unpredictable for that. Any of these can go bankrupt just as easily as anyone else. A REAL bankruptcy, or just a strategic one like Republic did to be able to get out if their fifty seater flying. Corporations have all learned how to play bankruptcy courts to their own advantage and - for airlines - they can manipulate the RLA to an even greater degree. And they’ll furlough you in a heartbeat if it serves their purpose.
My philosophy is to do whatever you can to avoid being stuck for ten years in a regional. That means chasing 121 flying hours in general and TPIC in particular, so my plan is to go where there is lots of flying, relatively short reserve times, and relatively quick upgrade. That detracts from quality of life at a regional generally, but optimizes the process of getting through quickly, which with the peak of the major airline hiring wave hitting in three or four years, I would really like to do.
YMMV, however. Pay your penny and take your pick.
What would I do? Go with Compass, ride that horse until it’s obvious there are better short term opportunities and then jump to them. If a year from now you wind up having been at your base of choice for a year, and Compass loses flying, take your type rating and your 750 hours and go be a near dec somewhere else, whatever it takes.
Compass is a better regional than most, at least in the short term, but a good regional isn’t the long term goal. Don’t be brand loyal out of some misplaced ideal of loyalty to the regional. Everyone of them will drop you like the proverbial hot rock if it suits their purpose. Once you’ve fulfilled your legal obligation to them, do whatever’s best for you.
Regionals per se are sort of labile. I often find myself reminding people that until ten years ago, Compass was a Delta wholly owned.
The plain fact if the matter is that all regionals are expendable. The list of regional airlines (or even major airlines) that have at least briefly been THE PLACE TO BE and then subsequently gone bankrupt is a long one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States
And the number of people who - at least at the regional level - have lost seniority and had to start over again somewhere else is legion. At the major airline level it’s usually a merger and the two pilot unions get to spend a few contentious years dealing with the seniority list integration. The bad feelings between the Virgin America and the Alaska pilots still lingers.
There basically are two philosophies and I personally subscribe to the minority view.
The majority view is to go somewhere you believe you would be willing to spend ten years if you got stuck there. That’s generally considered to be Skywest, Republic, or one of the wholly owneds.
Personally, I believe things are too unpredictable for that. Any of these can go bankrupt just as easily as anyone else. A REAL bankruptcy, or just a strategic one like Republic did to be able to get out if their fifty seater flying. Corporations have all learned how to play bankruptcy courts to their own advantage and - for airlines - they can manipulate the RLA to an even greater degree. And they’ll furlough you in a heartbeat if it serves their purpose.
My philosophy is to do whatever you can to avoid being stuck for ten years in a regional. That means chasing 121 flying hours in general and TPIC in particular, so my plan is to go where there is lots of flying, relatively short reserve times, and relatively quick upgrade. That detracts from quality of life at a regional generally, but optimizes the process of getting through quickly, which with the peak of the major airline hiring wave hitting in three or four years, I would really like to do.
YMMV, however. Pay your penny and take your pick.
What would I do? Go with Compass, ride that horse until it’s obvious there are better short term opportunities and then jump to them. If a year from now you wind up having been at your base of choice for a year, and Compass loses flying, take your type rating and your 750 hours and go be a near dec somewhere else, whatever it takes.
Compass is a better regional than most, at least in the short term, but a good regional isn’t the long term goal. Don’t be brand loyal out of some misplaced ideal of loyalty to the regional. Everyone of them will drop you like the proverbial hot rock if it suits their purpose. Once you’ve fulfilled your legal obligation to them, do whatever’s best for you.
Thank you. I am a return to aviation career changer - ratings / degree 20+ years ago and didn't chase the career because of everything you said. Having that perspective and seeing regional conditions better than I have ever known - its now time for me to interview with the possible options that suits me. Compass is top of list even though a Den might be better option than PHX (know i will be reserve at LAX/Sea for a bit).
I appreciate the constructive information that aligns with what I know.
06-02-2019, 08:08 PM
#359
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by ESQ702
I’m admittedly too lazy to look into this, so I’ll ask here: what’s a realistic timeframe to know whether the sky will actual fall or not at Compass with regards to Delta’s contract?
https://theaircurrent.com/airlines/r...-trans-states/
That went away.
https://theaircurrent.com/airlines/t...is-near-death/
Six months ago everybody was saying that Gojet was road kill.
Think GoJet will lose the Delta flying?
Now they’ve got new flying coming, they are hiring like crazy, and giving big bonuses.
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...gojet_airlines
The regional airline industry is like Brownian motion. It’s inherently unpredictable.
Realistically, it probably makes more sense for Delta to just renew. The bases and pilots are already in place, by the time you figure the costs of winding down the Delta flying at Compass and winding it up somewhere else, it probably makes economic sense to just renew, at least until Delta is ready to reclaim the flying at mainline with A220s, which is likely a couple years away.
But part of the game is to use some of the regionals to whipsaw the others. That is, to squeeze low prices from regional A by threatening to give (or actually giving) their existing flying to someone else.
It’s sort of a corporate game of chicken which is why the concept of a CAREER at a regional is so distasteful. You don’t really have stability until you are at a major and even then it can get...interesting.
Generally speaking, the two regionals considered to be the most “stable” are Skywest:
https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/rat...-Of-Bankruptcy
And Republic:
https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/rat...-Of-Bankruptcy
But like I said, the whole industry is Brownian Motion - basically smoke.
06-02-2019, 08:17 PM
#360
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by Excargodog
You never know until you know. A year ago it was rumored that Republic was going to buy Compass and the rest of TSA.
https://theaircurrent.com/airlines/r...-trans-states/
That went away.
https://theaircurrent.com/airlines/t...is-near-death/
Six months ago everybody was saying that Gojet was road kill.
Think GoJet will lose the Delta flying?
Now they’ve got new flying coming, they are hiring like crazy, and giving big bonuses.
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...gojet_airlines
The regional airline industry is like Brownian motion. It’s inherently unpredictable.
Realistically, it probably makes more sense for Delta to just renew. The bases and pilots are already in place, by the time you figure the costs of winding down the Delta flying at Compass and winding it up somewhere else, it probably makes economic sense to just renew, at least until Delta is ready to reclaim the flying at mainline with A220s, which is likely a couple years away.
But part of the game is to use some of the regionals to whipsaw the others. That is, to squeeze low prices from regional A by threatening to give (or actually giving) their existing flying to someone else.
It’s sort of a corporate game of chicken which is why the concept of a CAREER at a regional is so distasteful. You don’t really have stability until you are at a major and even then it can get...interesting.
Generally speaking, the two regionals considered to be the most “stable” are Skywest:
https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/rat...-Of-Bankruptcy
And Republic:
https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/rat...-Of-Bankruptcy
But like I said, the whole industry is Brownian Motion - basically smoke.
https://theaircurrent.com/airlines/r...-trans-states/
That went away.
https://theaircurrent.com/airlines/t...is-near-death/
Six months ago everybody was saying that Gojet was road kill.
Think GoJet will lose the Delta flying?
Now they’ve got new flying coming, they are hiring like crazy, and giving big bonuses.
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...gojet_airlines
The regional airline industry is like Brownian motion. It’s inherently unpredictable.
Realistically, it probably makes more sense for Delta to just renew. The bases and pilots are already in place, by the time you figure the costs of winding down the Delta flying at Compass and winding it up somewhere else, it probably makes economic sense to just renew, at least until Delta is ready to reclaim the flying at mainline with A220s, which is likely a couple years away.
But part of the game is to use some of the regionals to whipsaw the others. That is, to squeeze low prices from regional A by threatening to give (or actually giving) their existing flying to someone else.
It’s sort of a corporate game of chicken which is why the concept of a CAREER at a regional is so distasteful. You don’t really have stability until you are at a major and even then it can get...interesting.
Generally speaking, the two regionals considered to be the most “stable” are Skywest:
https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/rat...-Of-Bankruptcy
And Republic:
https://www.macroaxis.com/invest/rat...-Of-Bankruptcy
But like I said, the whole industry is Brownian Motion - basically smoke.
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