Actually, having multiple longevity lists at airlines in multiple financial positions is why there is not unity. If all things were created equal financially between existing airlines, unity would be a lot easier.

If, all of the sudden, all ALPA lists were merged into a master list, you would have many carriers that "couldn't" pay that much, allegedly, and threaten to go out of business, go into (managerial money making) bancruptcies and leave the pilot group no choices.

Now, I am the first person that believes that we need, and will see, contraction in this industry just the same as we are seeing it on main street with all the businesses that shouldn't have been opened or operating on magic money from lenders or investers over the last 5 years. Every town in this country is seeing some heavy contraction and our industry should not expect anything different.

Boy that sure sounds a whole lot like pre de-regulation.

 

Hi!

I've applied for Helo jobs, corporate, -135, Customs Border Patrol-UAV jobs, ground instructor, all kinds of stuff. I've even thought of being a flight attendant for a major. I'm hoping to end up in a good flying career job, but it's pretty tough right now.

cliff
GRB

 

Man I can't even get a bartending job, since it's been more than 2 years since my last gig.....that, and i don't have boobs. It's crazy scary out there.

 

I've noticed a pattern in the past. The last recession started in December of 2000 and wasn't really acknowledged until the later part of 2001, similar to this recession. Historically speaking recessions last approximately 14 months. The events of 9-11 acted as a catylist to this recession and ultimately pulled the airlines into a furlough frenzie, likely a frenzie they were hoping to avoid.

Airline continued to furlough following the end of the actual recession and recalls varied drastically by carrier. The primary difference between the furlough rounds this time and last time, the economy will likely stay in a severe recession beyond the 14 month point and prevent other career paths from spawning. You have to give credit to the airlines in one aspect, they always wait about a year into a recession before furloughing, so the timing and consequences can be anticipated. This one is going to hurt. When we do recover, if manufacturing hasn't returned to the states, the follow on recession may be the one the doom and gloomers hit right on the head.

 

You don't understand though, we have President Barack Obama to help us lead. He's going to bring us hope and change and hope. He's the most intelligent man, so he'll bring us change and a new hope. And change and hope and hope and change, you know, man?? You are unfortunatley right, there will be some serious downsizing this year and probably on to the next year. We may find jobs sooner than that but our extended future in this business such as any hopes for us to fly anything better will have been dampened by maybe even a decade. I would probably get comfortable in whatever you're doing.

 

You completely neglected the fact that scope eroded and RJ growth exploded, eliminating the mainline positions of mainline pilots while they were still out on the street.

This time around, a huge chunk of the cuts are going to be those same planes that were being delivered after 9/11. Mainline fleets will shrink too (and they already have as we all know) but unless scope changes, they won't shrink as much as they did last time.

Why did you post your thought in the Compass thread? We know you have some personal agenda against Compass, which is fine, but your comment will not be read by anyone that doesn't open a thread about an airline that isn't even hiring.

 

cliff,

while I can't relate to your current situation, I do understand the frustration my career took from September 12th, 2001 until date of corporate closure with Delta just a few months back; I worked for almost nothing and those years rolled by with not too many memories. to be totally honest with you, if i get the 60-day notice here in a few months, I will likely compact my digital logbook, and pack it all away until recalled; I just refuse to chase flight time. this time I will not waste another 3 years (or 6 years for some) hanging on for a low-paying recall. pilots have many valuable skills that do well even outside of aviation.

 

Pertaining to the scope, you hit the nail on the head. While I did neglect to mention scope, I also neglected many other aspects that otherwise would likely produced a document with quite a bit of length for a forum post.

Often times it requires a cafeful construction of words to convey the full meaning of ones words, anything short of that and the tone can be misconstrued for another meaning altogether. I have obviously erred on that side. I have no agenda against the "pilots" of Compass, none whatsoever. In fact I wish all of them the best! My perspective will likely be quite different than most on this forum as I come from a long lineage of military service. That being said, I am completely accustomed to peers speaking candidly and open to the frequent counsel of others, especially when they have been in my situation. This concept of openess helped me drastically when after three years at a dead-end commuter job, no upgrade in sigtht, fellow military pilots (flowbacks) pointed out the facts and provided explanation as needed. I remember hearing comments to the tune of pay, work rules, wasting time, move on, chase an upgrade; all of which pointed in one direction, ditching that $36 an hour commuter job where I was flying 100 hours a month to break even in life. For me it worked. Had it not been the continuous bombardment by my peers, those who looked after my career path (both civilian and military), I would still be slinging gear at now $38 an hour with still no upgrade in sight wondering if aviation ever got any better.

The fact of the matter is, the year after I quit Eagle ended up being my most rewarding year in aviation to date. I flew to the most remote and exotic destinations, no trashy hotels, rental cars, FBOs, all inclusive resorts and most importantly, I was paid commensurate with experience and NBAA salary. Admittedly, my first few weeks away from the Eagle were the "unknown." However, it only took about two months and I realized that all that counseling, whether solicited or not, paid off.

So what is my point in posting in the Compass forum? The pilots are experienced well beyond their pay and the respect they command (trust me, the corporate side of the house harbors little respect for regional pilot community and fortunately the NBAA doesn't factor in regional pay while computing pay scales). Aside from holding ok pay in the left seat and gaining years worth of experience, a guy in the right seat will likely find himself well into the highest levels of frustration as his college peers eclipse his yearly earnings and quality of life, year after year. Please remember I have friends on their 10th year of regional FO pay, they aren't digging it staring at another 5.

Please, my aggression is not towards the pilots. Any of those guys that have been on our jumpseat have walked away fed and well taken care of (even when the overhead bins are full). I am simply responding to the original poster who also had a problem with the "criminal" pay rate of $24 an hour.

 

Perhaps the tone of one of your other posts led me to believe it was everything to do with Compass that you disliked, instead of merely the concept of outsourced flying for less compensation.

In that regard, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Just look at the Midwest arbitration ruling. The situation is not good.

 

In a nutshell, what happened now?