Two things:

1
There is so much movement going on right now, whoever is new, won't be on reserve in 60 days after completing IOE when AA planes start coming and flows leave...

2
Reserve pilots and new hires make up a very low percentage of the pilot group, don't get me wrong the ADTG benefits some, but not the overwhelming majority

As with anything, you have to make a decision based off of how it fits for you, that's why we have block reps, I'm willing to bet 80-90% of the pilot group has lost money with the ADTG, look at how much Critical Pay the company is offering? That's not even with people leaving for flow, new airplanes coming, during winter (lowest block hour time per year)

 

What does a CDO credit under ADTG?
What's the policy with a pick up if you pick up a partial trip does min day or ADTG apply? Or is it barred?

 

Don't quote me on this, but I believe that CDO's and day trips do not apply to ADTG, CDO credits 4:00 and day trip credits whatever the day is worth credit wise...

 

With adtg, we are talking about only an additional 30 hrs of credit(over pre-LOA method)to the pilots, at the sacrifice of a whole heck of a lot of pay. With min day of 4.0 hrs pay AND credit, we are talking a much higher increase in credit gain(over pre-LOA method, but without losing any pay.

And let's be honest, some of our union leaders have already admitted privately to adtg being a worse deal than they anticipated.
After the implementation of this adtg, the union implied this was a means to an end....a way of protecting our pilot group from a binding arbitration decision. That end, is 4.0 hrs credit and pay for min day. We are almost there. By August of next year, I truly hope we will be done with adtg.

Now, let's see the numbers. All of them. That is what they are going to give to us, and our pilots will decide what we will stick with. I might have my own opinion, but I'm OK with letting the majority rule here.

 

Let's say you had a trip that was:

Day 1-
LAX - SFO
SFO - LAX
LAX - SFO

30 Hour Overnight say Day 2 you do nothing

Day 3-
SFO-LAX
LAX - SFO
SFO - LAX
Total block: 9
Credit because of ADTG: 14:15

And let's say you partial picked up only the last leg on day 1 and first flight back on day 3, the ADTG would still be applied. If the timing worked out just right and you got to do this when they are offering critical pay, you would get 21:22 for two legs. However, if you only partial pick up an SFO turn and not the overnight I BELIEVE (not sure, I don't pick up day trips) you would only get the 4 hour min day.

 

Saying "I lost xyz pay on this trip because of the ADTG" is a pretty poor argument because the trip would never have been built like that without the ADTG. If the company streamlines 4 day trips to be roughly 19 hours with the ADTG, who says they won't streamline them all to be 16 hours when we get 4 hours min pay and credit? I spoke to a friend recently at a different carrier who was going on a 12 or 14 hour four day because his shop had no duty or trip rigs. In that aspect, guaranteeing a 4 day cannot be worth less than 19 hours is actually a really good thing.

People here were really quick to throw up the pitch forks instead of looking at this objectively and thinking about how things were before. Let's keep an open mind and see what the union's analysis reveals.

 

The scenario you offer isn't reasonable based on the staffing model that CPZ uses. Crew compensation simply isn't the only driver behind pairing construction. The company will always run with a lean crew force and that drives a certain level of inherent efficiency.

The fact of the matter is that the former MEC Chairman left us with this concession for reasons I have never determined. I have my theories but I'll keep them to myself. In the meantime the CPZ pilot force has lost a great deal of money every month since the implementation of this concessionary LOA.

UA

 

Sherlock, When you figure out his motives, let us know! Until then...
Have you ever been involved in pairing construction?
Nobody can possibly be naive enough to think they won't build pairings differently if the rig changes. Yes, if there was a straight min day, you might be getting paid for your long layover. But NO, that pairing probably wouldn't exist if the ADTG Wasnt implemented and a min day was in effect.

Staffing isn't an issue until ALL crew members are at min days off. They can manipulate the pairings- trust me!
Crew cost is the single largest factor that goes into pairing construction. Usually some performance metrics are parallel to the crew costs. Other costs for hotels and deadheads aren't going to over come crew cost.

 

You make a point here, but think about this:

With the way we're about to be staffed (very lean), it's in the company's best interest to build efficient pairings. You will not see many four day trips built to 16 hours with 3 min days and one 30 hour overnight. Yes there may be some built that way and if you're very junior, you'll wish we still ADTG. You won't be junior for long.

IMO a majority of pilots at Compass will benefit more from 4 hours of pay and credit for 30 hour overnights than will benefit from a 4:45 ADTG. You'll be paid more per month and have more days off.

 

To your point, with our new contract, we were making more before ADTG was implemented without our 30 hour day off out of domicile counting towards PBS credit...

That said...
Pairings will undoubtedly change you are correct but as previous post have said the company cannot and will not bring everyone down to min days off, there are so many variables, and yes crew cost is one, but maximizing the efficiency of there labor is also equally important. The company and union, initially came out and said this was going to benefit the pilot group and it hasn't. Don't you think that the company wouldn't have fought so hard if we had min day 4 hours and they could just give us all 16 hour 4 days and 20 hour 5 days? We have the upper hand here, the company's staffing model benefits them with ADTG, the unions analysis before ADTG was that min day was going to cost the company 10-15 extra pilots (inside info), and that was before the AA 175's. With flows and new airplanes coming, it would be throwing money down the drain if we kept our current ADTG plan...

As an FO, on average over 6 months I've lost $337.46 a month and 2 days off by having ADTG. I know several captains that are losing 1k+ a month. It's a good assumption to think we'll make some if not all that up without ADTG...