We need a plan B for no vaccine.
10-31-2020, 05:52 AM
#511
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 516
Originally Posted by ClncClarence
Pfizer's first opportunity to see that data will be when 32 people in its trial become sick with Covid-19 -- and Bourla told investors that this has not yet happened.
This is literally the only reason why we are not seeing data yet. Not enough infections. This says absolutely nothing about the efficacy of the vaccine.
Seriously FormerFreightPuppy, we get it, you don’t believe this vaccine will work. It’s all you talk about. Give it a rest.
This is literally the only reason why we are not seeing data yet. Not enough infections. This says absolutely nothing about the efficacy of the vaccine.
Seriously FormerFreightPuppy, we get it, you don’t believe this vaccine will work. It’s all you talk about. Give it a rest.
10-31-2020, 05:52 AM
#512
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,610
Originally Posted by 123494
“We’re heading into a dark—you know—-you know the thing!”
Joe Biden
Joe Biden
D39E3EBA-EC51-44B3-BED1-47C34BA6C133.jpg
10-31-2020, 07:14 AM
#513
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Frankly, I'm surprised that the global expedited vaccine enterprise has gone as well as it has so far. Fundamentally it's like a bunch of dudes charging up a hill to take a machine-gun bunker... you expect casualties and you don't know exactly who, when, or how many. I'm surprised they're approaching the top and nobodies been gunned down yet (just a few flesh wounds).
I think a key factor in reducing the "casualties" is technology, we are able to target specific biological effects better and also steer clear of some known landmines (many decades of vaccine development experience have taught us a few things NOT to do). In this case it's not 19 y/o 'Nam-era draftees charging the hill, it's probably national mission force guys.
I think a key factor in reducing the "casualties" is technology, we are able to target specific biological effects better and also steer clear of some known landmines (many decades of vaccine development experience have taught us a few things NOT to do). In this case it's not 19 y/o 'Nam-era draftees charging the hill, it's probably national mission force guys.
10-31-2020, 07:26 AM
#514
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Frankly, I'm surprised that the global expedited vaccine enterprise has gone as well as it has so far. Fundamentally it's like a bunch of dudes charging up a hill to take a machine-gun bunker... you expect casualties and you don't know exactly who, when, or how many. I'm surprised they're approaching the top and nobodies been gunned down yet (just a few flesh wounds).
I think a key factor in reducing the "casualties" is technology, we are able to target specific biological effects better and also steer clear of some known landmines (many decades of vaccine development experience have taught us a few things NOT to do). In this case it's not 19 y/o 'Nam-era draftees charging the hill, it's probably national mission force guys.
I think a key factor in reducing the "casualties" is technology, we are able to target specific biological effects better and also steer clear of some known landmines (many decades of vaccine development experience have taught us a few things NOT to do). In this case it's not 19 y/o 'Nam-era draftees charging the hill, it's probably national mission force guys.
What happens if they get to the top of the hill and there's no machine gun nest?
Percentage of world population killed by Covid as of 10/30/2020 - 0.01525614%
You can use many types of "crisis" to grab money and power.
10-31-2020, 07:31 AM
#515
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Frankly, I'm surprised that the global expedited vaccine enterprise has gone as well as it has so far. Fundamentally it's like a bunch of dudes charging up a hill to take a machine-gun bunker... you expect casualties and you don't know exactly who, when, or how many. I'm surprised they're approaching the top and nobodies been gunned down yet (just a few flesh wounds).
I think a key factor in reducing the "casualties" is technology, we are able to target specific biological effects better and also steer clear of some known landmines (many decades of vaccine development experience have taught us a few things NOT to do). In this case it's not 19 y/o 'Nam-era draftees charging the hill, it's probably national mission force guys.
I think a key factor in reducing the "casualties" is technology, we are able to target specific biological effects better and also steer clear of some known landmines (many decades of vaccine development experience have taught us a few things NOT to do). In this case it's not 19 y/o 'Nam-era draftees charging the hill, it's probably national mission force guys.
And technology doesn’t necessarily change that. ‘Firsts’ are hard.
A total of 355 individuals flew on the space shuttle over its lifespan. 14 of them died. That’s a Shuttle astronaut/cosmonaut rate of damn near 4% DESPITE the best technology and the best minds available and a budget of $209 Billion. And that was in then-year dollars...
10-31-2020, 07:40 AM
#516
Clear ECAM
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 887
Originally Posted by Excargodog
And technology doesn’t necessarily change that. ‘Firsts’ are hard.
A total of 355 individuals flew on the space shuttle over its lifespan. 14 of them died. That’s a Shuttle astronaut/cosmonaut rate of damn near 4% DESPITE the best technology and the best minds available and a budget of $209 Billion. And that was in then-year dollars...
A total of 355 individuals flew on the space shuttle over its lifespan. 14 of them died. That’s a Shuttle astronaut/cosmonaut rate of damn near 4% DESPITE the best technology and the best minds available and a budget of $209 Billion. And that was in then-year dollars...
10-31-2020, 07:47 AM
#517
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by Excargodog
And technology doesn’t necessarily change that. ‘Firsts’ are hard.
A total of 355 individuals flew on the space shuttle over its lifespan. 14 of them died. That’s a Shuttle astronaut/cosmonaut rate of damn near 4% DESPITE the best technology and the best minds available and a budget of $209 Billion. And that was in then-year dollars...
A total of 355 individuals flew on the space shuttle over its lifespan. 14 of them died. That’s a Shuttle astronaut/cosmonaut rate of damn near 4% DESPITE the best technology and the best minds available and a budget of $209 Billion. And that was in then-year dollars...
100% of shuttle fatalities were under circumstances where management was told there was a problem, knew exactly what the problem was, and pressed on with operations anyway.
With a vaccine, the development phase is NOT budget constrained, and once the test-pilot phase is over, it's pretty easy to do sustained, indefinite routine operations (ex flu vaccine).
10-31-2020, 08:36 AM
#518
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Bad analogy. Shuttle, like everything NASA, was budget constrained and under political pressure to perform. The operation of the system degraded into a pork-barrel jobs program when it really needed to stay in permanent test-pilot mode.
100% of shuttle fatalities were under circumstances where management was told there was a problem, knew exactly what the problem was, and pressed on with operations anyway.
With a vaccine, the development phase is NOT budget constrained, and once the test-pilot phase is over, it's pretty easy to do sustained, indefinite routine operations (ex flu vaccine).
100% of shuttle fatalities were under circumstances where management was told there was a problem, knew exactly what the problem was, and pressed on with operations anyway.
With a vaccine, the development phase is NOT budget constrained, and once the test-pilot phase is over, it's pretty easy to do sustained, indefinite routine operations (ex flu vaccine).
2. Management knows the timeframe is unrealistic, they have always known the timeframe was unrealistic. They got told to shut up and color. They took the money and they are trying to color.
3. Once the test-pilot phase is over, the HARD part begins. Ask anyone who has ever been involved in a mass immunization program.
Seriously, I wish I could share your optimism, but historically it’s unrealistic. Not that many changes in technology have occurred in the last decade and I see no evidence that Homo Sapiens isn’t just as stubborn as ever.
10-31-2020, 10:34 AM
#519
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,026
Originally Posted by Excargodog
1. EVERYTHING is budget constrained.
2. Management knows the timeframe is unrealistic, they have always known the timeframe was unrealistic. They got told to shut up and color. They took the money and they are trying to color.
3. Once the test-pilot phase is over, the HARD part begins. Ask anyone who has ever been involved in a mass immunization program.
Seriously, I wish I could share your optimism, but historically it’s unrealistic. Not that many changes in technology have occurred in the last decade and I see no evidence that Homo Sapiens isn’t just as stubborn as ever.
2. Management knows the timeframe is unrealistic, they have always known the timeframe was unrealistic. They got told to shut up and color. They took the money and they are trying to color.
3. Once the test-pilot phase is over, the HARD part begins. Ask anyone who has ever been involved in a mass immunization program.
Seriously, I wish I could share your optimism, but historically it’s unrealistic. Not that many changes in technology have occurred in the last decade and I see no evidence that Homo Sapiens isn’t just as stubborn as ever.
10-31-2020, 11:05 AM
#520
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
Originally Posted by RhinoPherret
I would respectfully disagree with the bolded part of your statement. The medical field as an example, has certainly seen significant techological changes in research, diagnosis, and treatments over the past decade. I will not try to list them all here. A few examples: cancer immunotherapy/diagnostics, gene technology/therapies/editing, cell therapies, Hepatitis C cure, artificial pancreas, 3D printed prosthetics. Just a tiny sample.
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