Excargodog

Except the vaccines do not stop you from getting it or spreading it. So in the end, you get that possibility anyway. And the civilian families, GS workers, contractors, etc., ALL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE VACCINATED THEMSELVES. And to be infected by the thirty-three % of the civilian world that isn’t vaccinated. And especially now, when we know that breakthrough infections are common, everything you are concerned about is going to happen anyway.

I am NOT antivax, and my active duty days are way behind me, so it isn’t my ox being gored, but this was a stupid situation to put the military in. Case-fatality rate for active duty infections was about 60 out of 300,000 IDENTIFIED cases (and you know damn well there were a lot so asymptomatic they were just missed. That’s one out of 5000 over two years of being at risk. This was never a threat to mission accomplishment, unless some panicky skipper panicked. If we have a senior leadership that is going to panic at a one in 5000 casualty rate we have bigger problems than COVID.

The US Navy skippers used to be made of sterner stuff:

https://www.navsource.org/archives/0...es/taffy3m.htm

Indeed. At least most of those I have seen in the military press seemed to fit that demographic.

AirBear

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...e-dis-rcna9114

-103 Marines discharged for refusing the vaccine.

-Army has reprimanded more than 2,700 soldiers and will begin discharge proceedings in January

-about 4800 Army & Air Force have flatly refused the vax without seeking an exemption

-Marine Corps is in last place with 95% that have at least one dose. 97.5% for Air/Space Force and 98.4% of Navy is fully vaxed.

-West Point Cadets who don't get the vax or exemption will not be commissioned.

Not surprising that the Navy has the highest % with the vax. Close quarters, virus can spread like wildfire. Also not surprising that the Marines are in last place, in my memory they have always been the most conservative service.

skywatch

The most stupid thing in this whole situation is the idea that we need a full lockdown and quarantine for a bug that, especially for this demographic, has an IFR well below .5%.

Close second is that (as others have said) we think somehow vaccination stops spread and all of this from happening.

Drum

HINT: it never was and never has been about the "virus"

Merely a conveyor to a social credit system. For example the proliferation of "vaccine passports" in certain commie states and cities. They are easing the serfs into it slowly and methodically.

That is all.

rickair7777

It doesn't stop spread from variants but so far greatly reduces risk of severe disease. If that fails, then they'll need a modified vaccine, unless everyone has natural immunity by then.

Excargodog

Yeah, but in terms of the active duty force, the risk was low to begin with. Incidence of death due to COVID in active duty force far less than incidence of death due to suicide, MVAs, other diseases, etc.

The senior leadership blew this call.

rickair7777

Like I said, it wasn't about the health of most mil members, it was about operational disruption caused by protecting non-mil people from the large numbers of mil who would invariably get covid in close-quarters working environments.

Drum

Even lower in kids

But here we are

Common sense and science has been cast aside for the cult of covidism

We are going to see another cathartic event on order of WW2

Its the only way we get out of these spirals

Excargodog

Who will invariably get Covid in close quarters ANYWAY since immunization is NOT stopping military members ( or those non-mil people) from having breakthrough infections the majority of which will be asymptomatic (although still contagious) anyway. And as I said, the non-mil people all had the opportunity to avail themselves of immunizations if they wanted to (not that THAT was going to keep them from having breakthrough infections in any event either).

Rick, this was a bad call, and while I recognize your obligation as a military commander to support your chain of command, you can’t do so blindly. You can make the case that they MIGHT have been right, but after the fact - especially after Omicron - no one can objectively say that this has somehow benefitted either the military or those they work with.

THIS WAS A BAD CALL that cost the military far more than it benefitted the military. And yeah, it’s a sunk expense, once the (STUPID) order was given the cost to military discipline of not enforcing the order exceeded the cost of going through with that order, but even that got hamstrung by the NDAA restrictions and if it gets reversed in the next Congress that’ll undermine discipline still more. At this point all we can do is learn from the mistake, but that won’t happen if we stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that it WAS a mistake.

rickair7777

Vaccination if nothing else reduces cases and then nobody can say the mil didn't take every available measure (short of permanent, sustained lock-down of all operational forces)

I do not have to blindly support anything on an anonymous board.

It was the obvious call, vaccination is part of military service. The'ye mandating it for little school kids but our active duty heros are too chicken to roll up their sleeves??? GMAFB.