HTBH

Speaking of Joint Ventures....

I met some nice South Africans recently down south in the Caribbean area...

During the chat I didn't mention I was an airline pilot until later in the conversation. Was asking how they got down there. They said they flew Delta from J-Burg, then had an 8 hour plus delay in Atlanta to get on an AeroMexico flight to their final destination (a destination we fly to). I asked why they didn't put you on Delta the whole way with less time in Atlanta and they said their travel agent was only given that option. Now I realize some of that may beyond their understanding based on times, connections, etc.. but they seemed plenty capable of paying for a Delta only ticket. They also said that (as anyone who has traveled on multiple carriers internationally can probably attest too...) things got screwed up due to the change of airlines. Visa's and baggage became an issue. They got a lot of "not Delta's fault...talk to AeroMexico" and "not AeroMexico's fault...talk to Delta" as their answer to their Visa and baggage problems.

So at some point, we ("we" being Delta corporate) may be saving money this way. But we ("we" being Delta pilots) are definitely losing out. And our customers (that pay our salaries...) are getting a substandard product based on the experiences I've been told about first hand.

And yes, I should probably post this in a JV thread, but it fits here quite nicely into the discussion on JV's

Lifeisgood

Shouldn't the adjective of choice here be "fair" or "right"?
Why do you think that equal amount of flying in a JV is "fantastic" for one side?

I'd say Delta flying 100% of it would be fantastic!
Or if we set up a Narita-like hub in PVG and flew Delta metal to 16-20 Asian destinations - that would be even more fantastic!! Too bad it's not on your agenda to promote for some reason.

m3113n1a1

Because sailing is realistic.

Herkflyr

Uh what? The Chinese government and airlines will just be happy to say "hey let's create a JV where DAL does all the flying across the Pacific, and while we're at it, here's a bunch of cities in Asia that you can fly to from PVG instead of us."??


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sailingfun

Why promote fantasy. Reality is all that matters.
The Narita hub sounds like a great idea. Will it be able to generate a profit with modern aircraft overflying Narita? What would happen if the Japanese government were to open a second international hub closer to the city and kill the Narita yields? Could you still run a profitable hub? You can’t move it if you don’t because you will never get 5th freedom rights anywhere else.

SideSticker

Panama got their canal back and China got Hong Kong. How long do you think it will be before Japan takes away our (NWA's) 5th freedom rights?

sailingfun

They did by opening Haneda up to international flights.

Lifeisgood

Not convincing. A few years ago you were calling a fantasy the current payrates + PS and we got it!
It's not about what you think the reality now is, it's about the choice of adjectives you used, that's all. I am sticking with my definitions of "fair", "fantastic" and "even more fantastic".

sailingfun

Point to a single post where I ever said that. My reference has always been that total pilot costs must fall within a reasonable range of our main competitors or it won’t pass muster with the NMB. I have posted and believed going back to our exit from bankruptcy that gains have to be made by dragging our competition up with us. Amazing how that worked out isn’t it!

Lifeisgood

You are amazing SF! You were promoting the substandard TA for months and now you are a hero in the shining armor!