Underwhelming A350???
04-23-2018, 06:38 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,117
Originally Posted by CX500T
Random noob questions since it's kind of being discussed.
Lets say I'm sitting at my house at 8pm. I live out of base. I'm dumb and answer my phone without looking at the number. I'm on a normal X day.
They give me a 6am JFK Report. On my X Day.
Last flight out of ORF leaves 8:45pm. There is no way to get to airport and get on that flight, even if they positive space me. Time-distance from my house to the gate don't work.
First flight out of ORF can't get me to JFK for a 6am report.
What exactly is my situation then? I got legally IA'd but have no possible way to get there. Never mind child care, (well dog care in my case) or I may be far far away at my hunting cabin in BFE.
Lets say I'm sitting at my house at 8pm. I live out of base. I'm dumb and answer my phone without looking at the number. I'm on a normal X day.
They give me a 6am JFK Report. On my X Day.
Last flight out of ORF leaves 8:45pm. There is no way to get to airport and get on that flight, even if they positive space me. Time-distance from my house to the gate don't work.
First flight out of ORF can't get me to JFK for a 6am report.
What exactly is my situation then? I got legally IA'd but have no possible way to get there. Never mind child care, (well dog care in my case) or I may be far far away at my hunting cabin in BFE.
04-23-2018, 07:13 PM
#62
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
Originally Posted by qball
I thought the DC10 flew very nice (once you got used to not chasing th airspeed). It was very pitch sensitive.
The problem with the MD11 was, it was 100,000lbs heavier than the DC10, but used the same wing, plus the winglets and the center gear. It was a pig when you filled it up with people and gas. We would leave ATL for NRT at MGTW and could only climb to FL280 until we burned off enough gas to climb, which took about 3 hours. It was burning a lot more fuel than the advertised number, AA even sued MD over the higher fuel burns and won.
To get the fuel burn down MD installed that moving CG thing I talked about, where the fuel would be moved aft into the horizontal stabilizer, to move the CG back to 32 for cruise, which was supposed to be the best aerodynamic CG. The problem with that was, now it was less stable, so they had to add on the LSAS to help keep it under control at altitude. It flew ok as long as you didn't exceed the +/- 2lbs of stick pressure and waited for the auto trim to catch up, but if you weren't gentle, you'd get into a PIO and then hold on!
04-23-2018, 07:28 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: 73na
Posts: 286
Originally Posted by CX500T
Random noob questions since it's kind of being discussed.
Lets say I'm sitting at my house at 8pm. I live out of base. I'm dumb and answer my phone without looking at the number. I'm on a normal X day.
They give me a 6am JFK Report. On my X Day.
Last flight out of ORF leaves 8:45pm. There is no way to get to airport and get on that flight, even if they positive space me. Time-distance from my house to the gate don't work.
First flight out of ORF can't get me to JFK for a 6am report.
What exactly is my situation then? I got legally IA'd but have no possible way to get there. Never mind child care, (well dog care in my case) or I may be far far away at my hunting cabin in BFE.
Lets say I'm sitting at my house at 8pm. I live out of base. I'm dumb and answer my phone without looking at the number. I'm on a normal X day.
They give me a 6am JFK Report. On my X Day.
Last flight out of ORF leaves 8:45pm. There is no way to get to airport and get on that flight, even if they positive space me. Time-distance from my house to the gate don't work.
First flight out of ORF can't get me to JFK for a 6am report.
What exactly is my situation then? I got legally IA'd but have no possible way to get there. Never mind child care, (well dog care in my case) or I may be far far away at my hunting cabin in BFE.
Day care, alcohol consumption, and out of position are all valid reasons to decline an assignment. Many of these issues are covered very well in the Scheduling Reference Handbook on your tablet.
04-24-2018, 01:00 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Cockpit speaker volume knob set to eleven.
Posts: 1,410
Originally Posted by Timbo
The problem with the MD11 was, it was 100,000lbs heavier than the DC10, but used the same wing, plus the winglets and the center gear. It was a pig when you filled it up with people and gas. We would leave ATL for NRT at MGTW and could only climb to FL280 until we burned off enough gas to climb, which took about 3 hours. It was burning a lot more fuel than the advertised number, AA even sued MD over the higher fuel burns and won.
To get the fuel burn down MD installed that moving CG thing I talked about, where the fuel would be moved aft into the horizontal stabilizer, to move the CG back to 32 for cruise, which was supposed to be the best aerodynamic CG. The problem with that was, now it was less stable, so they had to add on the LSAS to help keep it under control at altitude. It flew ok as long as you didn't exceed the +/- 2lbs of stick pressure and waited for the auto trim to catch up, but if you weren't gentle, you'd get into a PIO and then hold on!
To get the fuel burn down MD installed that moving CG thing I talked about, where the fuel would be moved aft into the horizontal stabilizer, to move the CG back to 32 for cruise, which was supposed to be the best aerodynamic CG. The problem with that was, now it was less stable, so they had to add on the LSAS to help keep it under control at altitude. It flew ok as long as you didn't exceed the +/- 2lbs of stick pressure and waited for the auto trim to catch up, but if you weren't gentle, you'd get into a PIO and then hold on!
04-24-2018, 08:28 AM
#65
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
It sounds like it's time for a "When the MD-11 was new..."
1990 Promo Video
https://youtu.be/HML-cWNoLu4
1990 Promo Video
https://youtu.be/HML-cWNoLu4
04-24-2018, 09:02 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: 320B
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by qball
Yikes. I also recall the feds saying the APU could not be used with fuel in the horizontal stabilizer unless someone was in the cockpit to monitor (due to lack of shielding). That was AA as I recall. Maybe it was just urban legend. Also heard there was a MX function that would shut down the avionics after a certain period. I just happened to be when on the return trip from NRT. Maybe another urban legend. More great MD engineering if true.
04-25-2018, 03:30 AM
#67
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Timbo
That LSAS thing was fun too, (Longitudinal Stability Augmentation System, basically a computer controlling the elevator) and it also had automatic pitch trim. If you held less than two pounds of pressure on the yoke, it would trim it out for you, but if you were ham fisted and used more force, the trim would cut out. Some guys would get into a PIO while fighting with the automatic trim.
Wonder why they didn't use the Airbus approach. When I ham fist that thing it just says "nope" and continues doing whatever it wanted to do in the first place.
Hope they stick a Douglas Heading Knob in a museum. That thing is an absolute work of a genius.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 04-25-2018 at 03:49 AM.
04-25-2018, 07:53 AM
#69
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,722
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Think someone gave Mike Tyson a leg going into KLAX one morning.
Wonder why they didn't use the Airbus approach. When I ham fist that thing it just says "nope" and continues doing whatever it wanted to do in the first place.
Hope they stick a Douglas Heading Knob in a museum. That thing is an absolute work of a genius.
Wonder why they didn't use the Airbus approach. When I ham fist that thing it just says "nope" and continues doing whatever it wanted to do in the first place.
Hope they stick a Douglas Heading Knob in a museum. That thing is an absolute work of a genius.
It just didn't have enough wing to give you much ground effect/float in the flare, a lot like a 727. Some guys would keep the power up on 1+3, and just pull back #2 in the flare, which would also pitch the nose up just a little bit and you could still push 1+3 up if you needed some last second airspeed.
It and the MD88 are just a DC10 and a DC9 that have been stretched and over-weighted on the same -too short- wing, oh, and had an FMS shoved up their butts too!
Is it any wonder they ain't quite right?
Last edited by Timbo; 04-25-2018 at 08:04 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
