The Company cannot impose anything until both parties are released by the NMB, not the specific mediator.

Denny

 

There would not be a contract because we are not in agreement. They could do whatever they want. They may not care what they impose if they are desperate enough to request release. It would be game over at that point.

 

They have the same hammer over the company that they have over us. If they feel the company is being unreasonable they can refuse self help. I would expect the NMB to have the company give them a detailed list of what they seek to impose before they considered a request for self help.

 

Of course we "should start planning" by the end of summer. We should start planning now. We should have been planning for the last several boom years.

Its asinine to think the mediator and NMB will be defacto BK judges worrying about pennies on the dollar to select creditors by granting an impasse after less than a year. That's pure fantasy and will not happen. And even if it did, imposing a contract in a liquidation environment will do absolutely nothing to stave off the pending liquidation in the first place. Do you think the company thinks the mediator thinks the NMB will think that, but for a few days or weeks of additional liquidity this would all be solved?

Empty threat. Call their bluff. Shut it down.

 

I started planning mentally and financially in 2007 before indoc, thanks to some wise predecessors. The backup plan is ready. There are no concessions that save the company from BK, instead they will be used against us in court. If I end up on the street, so be it. I want to return to the job I left, not one voluntarily gutted out of fear. Or is that not what you meant?

*If we need reduced ALV next year to eliminate furloughs, we could have a conversation about that. I'd consider working half month schedules this fall, but nothing sooner.

 

I could get onboard a reduced ALV agreement to eliminate furloughs as well .... IF part of the agreement was no displacements. Keep me in my seat, I’ll be willing to work less. Not be paid less. You want to displace me into a NB right seat, and then reduce my hours to 55? That’s a no go item for me...

 

Well I don’t know when you were hired but there are going to be displacements from the 88 going away. For the short term everyone is probably thinking like you that eventually there might be an ALV reduction so where can I go to make up the pay.

 

No displacements? What industry do you think you work in? There were displacements when we retired the 747. There always have been, and always will be, displacements in this industry.

 

I agree. I turn 61 next week and I would be very interested in it. How Delta is not doing some of these programs is mystifying to me......but i agree, its probably all about the "No union drive" they constantly wage

 

It might behoove all those(few actually) touting ALV reductions to look at it from another perspective. Everybody(pilots,mgt,union) recognizes the damage to “good will” done by furloughs. Those pilots that get furloughed have a life long “foul taste” in their mouth(some not all).....their ire is directed against the company. The company understands this, but they are going to do what they think they have to do.

Now, on the forum, we get some that are virtue signaling, “I’m willing to give an ALV reduction to prevent furloughs even up to 50]. There are only 2 ways they can happen. First an MEC cramdown, with no vote by the constituents allowed. That’s not likely since it would “materially” affect the pilot group. The other way would be a vote by the constituents. Herein lies the downside. If the ALV reduction were to be voted on, those at the bottom of the list would glom onto that like a drowning man a life preserver. If the reduction was voted down(I feel pretty confident it would be) now, who are the furloughed upset with. I’m thinking, the union, and the greedy pilots.

So my PSA is, let’s be careful tossing out ideas that, IMO, offer false hope to those at the bottom. Quit negotiating in public, if you have and idea....write your rep. If they craft something, we will get to vote on it and they (hopefully) will have done their due diligence taking into consideration a myriad of things that aren’t put up on these forums.

Additionally, we have a contract that addresses furlough protection. It was written and modified over many years and many MEC’s, some hard line and some pro-active engagement. They have had ample time to address ALV reduction to preclude/mitigate furloughs. Something may be proffered by the union, but at this point in time, it will be picking winners and losers.......which will irk at least one group of pilots.

IOW,...... ALV reductions sound very magnanimous, prolly will not happen, and raise false, unrealistic hope for those that are already going through a stressful time

JMHO.......I know, I’m just a greedy Boomer, but this is exactly what I conveyed to my pilot progeny who are in the furlough window.