Omar 111

So when did this change? The contract (23.P.5.e) still says you can fly domestic before your TOE.

BigHitterLlama

Fully ready to admit to being wrong but I think far/FAA takes precedence over PWA.

BigHitterLlama

sorry that’s not really helpful.
*happy to be proven wrong but the current FAA application is that OE and TOE has to be complete before you can fly the line.

Gunfighter

I understand what TOE is, I've done it four times at Delta. The question was in regards to earlier posts suggesting TOE is uniquely a new hire logjam. There is no difference in the training footprint for a new hire to the 7ER vs NB FO to 7ER. Having unfilled vacancies for new hires on the 7ER doesn't create a training problem. In fact, I'd argue it's better for the company, because they aren't losing a productive pilot due to the backlog, they are simply waiting longer for a new hire to become productive.

tunes

INS GS and QROT pay the aircraft rate....but if you GS in a fly month it’s paid at instructor rate. It might be buried in the FOPP somewhere I’ll see if I can dig it up.

About 2 years ago the FAA came down and said no flying domestically until TOE complete


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FangsF15

So what was that jab in one of the Town Halls a couple of months ago about how the FAA had "signed off" on some change to ER TOE rules, and they had "talked to ALPA" about the pilots' part, causing all the reps to simultaneously blast out "Whoa, we know nothing about this, there has been no proposal from the company"?

I had the very distinct impression the company was trying to say the hangup to 'fixing' this was ALPA. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the company, nor doubting you tunes. On the contrary, it sounds like they grossly misrepresented that they were limited by ALPA, not the FAA, and needed relief. When in fact it sounds like, if true, the FAA has already given them the dispensation they need.

Gen6

Its an FAA thing. They won't buy off on it. I was converted to 7ER back in Aug. Finished OE in Aug and sat several months. I had 2 previous TOE's on the 7ER in the past. It has nothing to do with being a new hire. Happened to have the head FAA guy for DAL on my 44x. He said as long as its a combined category for domestic and intl that the FAA would not approve domestic only. Ironically he said they were considering allowing TOE's to be done in the sim overnight. He said he couldn't think why that would not be a viable option. 7 hour LOE, layover on Virginia Ave, and then another 7 hour LOE in the sim. Fortunately no one appears to be interested in that. There is active discussion that the Atlantic crossing becomes a theater qual which would be an end around the issue.

And yes sitting NQAT sucks when there was ample flying to be had. Especially if you are senior and lost the left seat on the MOAD collecting ALV.

Bergman

I totally misunderstood what you are saying! Whoops. Makes sense now.

I’d vote to eliminate the TOE requirement for previously-TOEd pilots. Just have the OE LCA review the procedures for the new jet. I had 14 crossings the two months before my displacement but still had to do TOE again. SMH.

JamesBond

As an LCP, I can tell you that after awhile you need a break. ESPECIALLY if you are in a category that has newhires. You need a trip where you just go out, fly and don't talk about Delta or airplane stuff other than when necessary. If you are doing nothing but OEs and line checks, you get burned out.


However, I can make a good case for the project pilot scenario.

PilotBases

That’s a part of it. If we are hiring it means we need bodies, and waiting an extra 2-3 months for completion doesn’t help, it also limits the sims we can use by having 4 out of 5 newhires on one fleet. If they said AE late summer as posted above that would indicate they’ll spread openings around to keep it balanced, while not neglecting ER. Wonder now if more “senior” folks would bid ER B knowing how many could be under them.