Moved - Flap setting trigger thread
01-22-2021, 07:39 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
Originally Posted by LumberJack
I guarantee your FO's notice, it's just not something worth mentioning.
And you really think you are qualified to speak for all FO's, eh?
Between you and trip7, you sure are masters of the dal universe.
01-22-2021, 07:43 PM
#102
Coverage Award...
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,305
Originally Posted by APCLurker
Guarantee it huh?
And you really think you are qualified to speak for all FO's, eh?
Between you and trip7, you sure are masters of the dal universe.
And you really think you are qualified to speak for all FO's, eh?
Between you and trip7, you sure are masters of the dal universe.
01-22-2021, 07:53 PM
#103
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,034
Originally Posted by LumberJack
I guarantee your FO's notice, it's just not something worth mentioning.
The best pilots I fly with are good at CRM. Some review it after push, some do it whenever it makes sense. Both ways work, but the company prefers the second. There's a difference between rushing and finding another place to do the same thing.
The best pilots I fly with are good at CRM. Some review it after push, some do it whenever it makes sense. Both ways work, but the company prefers the second. There's a difference between rushing and finding another place to do the same thing.
01-22-2021, 08:17 PM
#104
Coverage Award...
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,305
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Unfortunately the company has to change procedures with regularity to try to find that right place, because... As for the company’s preferences, that’s completely subjective and varies with the person that’s representing the company as a monolith at the time.
How is this subjective? They ask us to move after push if it makes sense.
01-23-2021, 04:32 AM
#105
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,504
Originally Posted by Trip7
That’s a debrief at Delta as well. Best Practice is no control checks while moving on the ramp. Do it before taxi or after clearing the Ramp.
Originally Posted by Trip7
I would ask you to aspire to be a more seasoned and efficient pilot. There is no reason to be clogging up the ramp to verify the WDR after push unless it's a quick taxi. Usually there is plenty of time for both pilots to independently review the WDR outside the ramp.
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01-23-2021, 04:42 AM
#106
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,504
Originally Posted by Trip7
There is no hurry to do the WDR verification immediately after push back unless there is a legitimate safety concern(weather, unfamiliar airport, low time FO etc etc). It's dynamic.
However you made a static statement of not moving the airplane until WDR is verified because you rather not do it moving;
Are you not comfortable with your FO taxiing straight ahead at 10-15 kts?
If you get a WDR Delayed message after push back at one of our busy hubs will you sit on the ramp until the WDR comes?
With that said I shouldn't have used the word "seasoned" as this discussion is well into the realm of technique.
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However you made a static statement of not moving the airplane until WDR is verified because you rather not do it moving;
Are you not comfortable with your FO taxiing straight ahead at 10-15 kts?
If you get a WDR Delayed message after push back at one of our busy hubs will you sit on the ramp until the WDR comes?
With that said I shouldn't have used the word "seasoned" as this discussion is well into the realm of technique.
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01-23-2021, 05:31 AM
#107
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,414
Originally Posted by tunes
that maybe ‘best practice’ on your fleet. But it’s not on all fleets. Even with that best practice is technique not procedure.
It’s this mentality of why we have TOFU events. Ramp congestion should be the absolute last of your concerns. Your only concern should be to safely operate your airplane.
It’s this mentality of why we have TOFU events. Ramp congestion should be the absolute last of your concerns. Your only concern should be to safely operate your airplane.
Rush to verify the WDR is a contributor to TOFU as it interrupts the after start checklist to Salute received flow and opens up opportunities for distractions when the same exact thing can be done off the ramp with significantly less threats. Furthermore, many who check the WDR after push procede to accomplish the control check and taxi checklist on the ramp opening up even more threats.
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01-23-2021, 08:34 AM
#110
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,504
Originally Posted by Trip7
We've already covered that this is the realm of technique. If ramp incidents tick up I wouldn't be surprised if best practice turns to procedure.
Rush to verify the WDR is a contributor to TOFU as it interrupts the after start checklist to Salute received flow and opens up opportunities for distractions when the same exact thing can be done off the ramp with significantly less threats. Furthermore, many who check the WDR after push procede to accomplish the control check and taxi checklist on the ramp opening up even more threats.
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Rush to verify the WDR is a contributor to TOFU as it interrupts the after start checklist to Salute received flow and opens up opportunities for distractions when the same exact thing can be done off the ramp with significantly less threats. Furthermore, many who check the WDR after push procede to accomplish the control check and taxi checklist on the ramp opening up even more threats.
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I’m honestly quite baffled how your mentality made it to standards. It’s common practice on my fleet to do the control check on the ramp right as taxi begins. You know what’s a bigger reason of TOFU events? Rushing period. You seem to think that latency is more important than safety. If you ever debriefed me on latency on a line check I’d tell you exactly where you can stick it.
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