Moved - Flap setting trigger thread
01-23-2021, 03:10 PM
#141
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by LumberJack
First, you can't honestly mean you routinely sit at the top of the J line for "upwards of 30 minutes". Waiting for the gate agent became more common when they over cut their numbers, that one I have experienced. Consistently waiting for the WDR? Maybe I'm too literal but that could mean anything. Once every month? Once every trip? For me it happens maybe once or twice a month.
You're using the failure of others as an excuse to ignore best practice. "Why should I care about latency when the rampers are slow and the gate agents are slow and F9 gets in the way?" Every pilot at every airline has complained about gate agents and rampers. Believe it or not, Delta is better than most in that regard. It's great that you file FCR's, I do the same, but I don't get upset about it anymore, it's just not worth it.
You're using the failure of others as an excuse to ignore best practice. "Why should I care about latency when the rampers are slow and the gate agents are slow and F9 gets in the way?" Every pilot at every airline has complained about gate agents and rampers. Believe it or not, Delta is better than most in that regard. It's great that you file FCR's, I do the same, but I don't get upset about it anymore, it's just not worth it.
Fact. Documented. Have a nice evening.
01-23-2021, 03:15 PM
#142
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by OOfff
“I’ll refrain from commenting further”
*3 more paragraphs*
yes, there have been definite, palpable setbacks in the operation over the past year, but acting like 30 minute waits for marshallers “happens a lot” is hogwash.
*3 more paragraphs*
yes, there have been definite, palpable setbacks in the operation over the past year, but acting like 30 minute waits for marshallers “happens a lot” is hogwash.
Refrain from commenting to you further on the subject. That post was a singularity.
Since you continue to call me a liar....do you have access to the metrics to make such a bold statement as that? I don't think you do.
Go read about our HVA customers and there comments on us arriving early, only to wait for gates and thence miss connections. But hell I'm just making **** up.
Have a great evening.
01-23-2021, 03:23 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,716
Originally Posted by Drum
Refrain from commenting to you further on the subject. That post was a singularity.
Since you continue to call me a liar....do you have access to the metrics to make such a bold statement as that? I don't think you do.
Go read about our HVA customers and there comments on us arriving early, only to wait for gates and thence miss connections. But hell I'm just making **** up.
Have a great evening.
Since you continue to call me a liar....do you have access to the metrics to make such a bold statement as that? I don't think you do.
Go read about our HVA customers and there comments on us arriving early, only to wait for gates and thence miss connections. But hell I'm just making **** up.
Have a great evening.
01-23-2021, 03:31 PM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,066
Originally Posted by Trip7
It's been stated multiple times that Best Practices are techniques not procedures and overall this discussion is well into the realm of technique. Best practices are best practices for a reason and that reason is usually explained on a debrief for a crew to consider in the future.
For example, WDR verification Best Practice is silent and independent review of the WDR by all each pilot. Why? Because in prior incidents the Captain would read/highlight the wrong data and drag the other pilot(s) down the rabbit hole.
Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
For example, WDR verification Best Practice is silent and independent review of the WDR by all each pilot. Why? Because in prior incidents the Captain would read/highlight the wrong data and drag the other pilot(s) down the rabbit hole.
Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
I get that fleet captains and CLPCs would like everyone to do it their way. Just change the manual then. As for the "triggers", I have found that the flow of information dictates the next step and rarely am I looking to identify triggers. I do things one at a time with my full attention and focus when they are threats identified by data or a publication. So setting flaps correctly and engine starts/warm up tend to slow me down. Critique away! The best part about this job is that only once every 2 years is someone looking over my shoulder, pen in hand, waiting for me to do something they would(not) do. Funny how it's never something that requires time off or retraining. But I get the game, you have to say something. 23 years flying jets and I have never taken a runway single engine or without flaps. I think most of us can say that.
"Through these doors" and all that.
01-23-2021, 03:50 PM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,128
Originally Posted by Drum
Refrain from commenting to you further on the subject. That post was a singularity.
Since you continue to call me a liar....do you have access to the metrics to make such a bold statement as that? I don't think you do.
Go read about our HVA customers and there comments on us arriving early, only to wait for gates and thence miss connections. But hell I'm just making **** up.
Have a great evening.
Since you continue to call me a liar....do you have access to the metrics to make such a bold statement as that? I don't think you do.
Go read about our HVA customers and there comments on us arriving early, only to wait for gates and thence miss connections. But hell I'm just making **** up.
Have a great evening.
Did you play hockey? You seem to be a fight looking for a place to happen.
01-23-2021, 04:07 PM
#146
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by OOfff
since you’re challenging me on the metrics, do YOU have them?
You started the challenge, you called me a liar.
Again, go look at what our HVAs are saying about it.
I said we filled out FCRs for each and every occurrence. The data is being tracked since the paperwork is being filled out.
Since we've tripped down chasing the white rabbit on this when in the first place this was to address efficiency comment made by trip. Great troll.
OTOH - Glad you don't see it. You must be living right.
01-23-2021, 04:26 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,716
Originally Posted by Drum
Never said I did. I'm just telling you what I've seen since October out on the line. Maybe we fly different banks. I fly mostly over weekends. Thurs - Mon.
You started the challenge, you called me a liar.
Again, go look at what our HVAs are saying about it.
I said we filled out FCRs for each and every occurrence. The data is being tracked since the paperwork is being filled out.
Since we've tripped down chasing the white rabbit on this when in the first place this was to address efficiency comment made by trip. Great troll.
OTOH - Glad you don't see it. You must be living right.
You started the challenge, you called me a liar.
Again, go look at what our HVAs are saying about it.
I said we filled out FCRs for each and every occurrence. The data is being tracked since the paperwork is being filled out.
Since we've tripped down chasing the white rabbit on this when in the first place this was to address efficiency comment made by trip. Great troll.
OTOH - Glad you don't see it. You must be living right.
01-23-2021, 04:42 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,430
Originally Posted by OOfff
i guess you and I have vastly different experiences. I’ve never once waited half an hour for marshallers, even in the worst of Chicago winters at UAX, and definitely not in my time at delta.
i’d think if it “happens a lot,” I would have experienced it. My guess is that you’re exaggerating.
i’d think if it “happens a lot,” I would have experienced it. My guess is that you’re exaggerating.
01-23-2021, 04:56 PM
#149
Coverage Award...
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by LumberJack
First, you can't honestly mean you routinely sit at the top of the J line for "upwards of 30 minutes". Waiting for the gate agent became more common when they over cut their numbers, that one I have experienced. Consistently waiting for the WDR? Maybe I'm too literal but that could mean anything. Once every month? Once every trip? For me it happens maybe once or twice a month.
You're using the failure of others as an excuse to ignore best practice. "Why should I care about latency when the rampers are slow and the gate agents are slow and F9 gets in the way?" Every pilot at every airline has complained about gate agents and rampers. Believe it or not, Delta is better than most in that regard. It's great that you file FCR's, I do the same, but I don't get upset about it anymore, it's just not worth it.
You're using the failure of others as an excuse to ignore best practice. "Why should I care about latency when the rampers are slow and the gate agents are slow and F9 gets in the way?" Every pilot at every airline has complained about gate agents and rampers. Believe it or not, Delta is better than most in that regard. It's great that you file FCR's, I do the same, but I don't get upset about it anymore, it's just not worth it.
Originally Posted by Drum
Consistently. Did I stutter? Or do you not understand the word?
Fact. Documented. Have a nice evening.
Fact. Documented. Have a nice evening.
01-24-2021, 06:11 AM
#150
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,880
Drum - OOff,
Both of you are getting spooled up over nothing. It is possible for different folks to have different experiences with gate hold outs. There have been times when a 30 minute holdout was very common, SLC around 2004-2005 at around 0900. We had more flights than gates and it lasted quite a while. Ditto LAX around 2200 about 8 years ago. I am sure there were some other fairly common ones but these stand out becasue they were epic fails and we expected the hold out.
With that said from my personal experience this situation has improved greatly and I now rarely get a 10-15 minute holdout, usually coincident with a early arrival. I don't doubt that some folks are getting 30 minutes holdouts so please don't turn this thread into a gate holdout argument.
Thanks Scoop
Both of you are getting spooled up over nothing. It is possible for different folks to have different experiences with gate hold outs. There have been times when a 30 minute holdout was very common, SLC around 2004-2005 at around 0900. We had more flights than gates and it lasted quite a while. Ditto LAX around 2200 about 8 years ago. I am sure there were some other fairly common ones but these stand out becasue they were epic fails and we expected the hold out.
With that said from my personal experience this situation has improved greatly and I now rarely get a 10-15 minute holdout, usually coincident with a early arrival. I don't doubt that some folks are getting 30 minutes holdouts so please don't turn this thread into a gate holdout argument.
Thanks Scoop
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