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01-23-2021, 11:41 AM

#131

Trip7

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2007

Posts: 5,415

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunes

I’m honestly quite baffled how your mentality made it to standards. It’s common practice on my fleet to do the control check on the ramp right as taxi begins. You know what’s a bigger reason of TOFU events? Rushing period. You seem to think that latency is more important than safety. If you ever debriefed me on latency on a line check I’d tell you exactly where you can stick it.

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Best practice is control check either before movement or until you are off the ramp. This is being stressed due to uptick in ramp incidents/close calls. We taxiing, especially when beginning a taxi on a busy congested ramp, the FO should be engaged monitoring the taxi, not checking controls while a SWA bag cart comes ripping by

Some how you equate waiting to verify the WDR until off the ramp as Rushing. I find that baffling.

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01-23-2021, 11:44 AM

#132

notEnuf

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2015

Position: stake holder ir.delta.com

Posts: 10,066

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7

Gate latency is not a graded item but along with anything that is best practice, it can be subject to a debrief. Recent Line Check Blitz we were supposed to debrief pilots on including Company COVID enhanced cleaning in their PAs.

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There is always a critique and always a debrief. Debriefing the minutia means there was nothing of significance to talk about. Some people just don't want to listen to other techniques or criticism of what has been worked well for them for a long time. Smile and nod while biting your tongue. (literally) LCA are company conduits, recognize that and allow them to leave ASAP. Discussion and questions are better handled outside the flight deck. Take what has value and brain dump the rest. Technique = technique. Best practice is not procedure.

Last edited by notEnuf; 01-23-2021 at 12:00 PM.

01-23-2021, 12:22 PM

#133

Drum

Banned

Joined APC: Sep 2015

Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL

Posts: 1,982

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7

If it literally takes 30 secs take that 30 secs on(in the case of ATL) E, F, L or M. FO finished the start, After start checklist, Salute received Flaps_ Call for taxi and keep it moving. Take your 30 secs on the taxi way not the ramp.

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So Trip, with efficiency in mind, why are we waiting upwards of 30 min for people to get marshalled in? Happens a lot.

Why are we then waiting 10+ min for gate agents to drive the jet bridge to the aircraft for deplaning? Happens a lot.

Why are the WDRs consistently delayed for pax close out? Jets waiting on gates due to no ramp personnel block ramps too.

Goggles has it right. As does any seasoned, experienced aviator - they understand where they are in the timeline and the continuum of events.

01-23-2021, 12:46 PM

#134

OOfff

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2016

Posts: 6,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drum

where are you frequently waiting a half hour for marshallers?

01-23-2021, 12:54 PM

#135

Trip7

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2007

Posts: 5,415

Quote:

Originally Posted by notEnuf

It's been stated multiple times that Best Practices are techniques not procedures and overall this discussion is well into the realm of technique. Best practices are best practices for a reason and that reason is usually explained on a debrief for a crew to consider in the future.

For example, WDR verification Best Practice is silent and independent review of the WDR by all each pilot. Why? Because in prior incidents the Captain would read/highlight the wrong data and drag the other pilot(s) down the rabbit hole.

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01-23-2021, 01:52 PM

#136

Drum

Banned

Joined APC: Sep 2015

Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL

Posts: 1,982

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOfff

where are you frequently waiting a half hour for marshallers?

E terminal

F terminal

T Terminal

A Terminal

LAX

SFO

SAN

SEA

MCO

TPA

FCR's have been filed each and every time.

Longest wait has been 47 minutes. That was for F9. We got to do two laps thru delta taxiway and back around again on L in the process. Fun times.

What's your point OOfff?

01-23-2021, 02:24 PM

#137

OOfff

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2016

Posts: 6,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drum

i guess you and I have vastly different experiences. I’ve never once waited half an hour for marshallers, even in the worst of Chicago winters at UAX, and definitely not in my time at delta.

i’d think if it “happens a lot,” I would have experienced it. My guess is that you’re exaggerating.

01-23-2021, 02:52 PM

#138

Drum

Banned

Joined APC: Sep 2015

Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL

Posts: 1,982

Quote:

Originally Posted by OOfff

Well my guess OOfff you are FOS and need to fly more.

But I'll refrain from commenting further as you just called me a liar. Which I am not.

Its been documented. That's all we can do.

This was in reference to trip's efficiency comments.

This operation is not efficient anymore. Too many personnel cuts. From dispatchers, to gate agents, to rampers. It shows. Sorry you are too high on kool aid to see it. Maybe you are a fortunate son.

01-23-2021, 03:05 PM

#139

OOfff

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2016

Posts: 6,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drum

“I’ll refrain from commenting further”

*3 more paragraphs*

yes, there have been definite, palpable setbacks in the operation over the past year, but acting like 30 minute waits for marshallers “happens a lot” is hogwash.

01-23-2021, 03:05 PM

#140

LumberJack

Coverage Award...

Joined APC: Nov 2016

Posts: 1,306

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drum

First, you can't honestly mean you routinely sit at the top of the J line for "upwards of 30 minutes". Waiting for the gate agent became more common when they over cut their numbers, that one I have experienced. Consistently waiting for the WDR? Maybe I'm too literal but that could mean anything. Once every month? Once every trip? For me it happens maybe once or twice a month.

You're using the failure of others as an excuse to ignore best practice. "Why should I care about latency when the rampers are slow and the gate agents are slow and F9 gets in the way?" Every pilot at every airline has complained about gate agents and rampers. Believe it or not, Delta is better than most in that regard. It's great that you file FCR's, I do the same, but I don't get upset about it anymore, it's just not worth it.