Just curious. Could it be more complex than that?

They close your base and you don't move and are "forced" to commute......that's a choice?

Your base becomes super senior due to realignment and you chose not to commute and suffer "stagnation"......that's a choice?

They change the retirement age and you are "stuck" in the RJ world instead of quitting......that's a choice?

The company hands you a 48% pay cut and you don't quit and slog out the 10 year recovery......that's a choice?

You had covid and choose not to vax.....that's a choice?

That's the neat thing about "Merica....lots of choices.....just sometimes, some are more palatable than others.

I guess one could say suicide is a choice.....so no empathy, no perspective, no attempt at "understanding" ? Just "tough tata's", that was your choice?

I too am comfortable with all the above as far as logic goes.....but it sounds a little tone deaf....or am I misunderstanding what you are getting at?

 

the vitriol like you calling people who disagree with you (or even question you) “selfish,” “greedy,” and lacking in compassion?

oh yeah but you’re just asking questions, not advocating for any position

 

JamesBond,

What is enlightening is the fact that our company is still losing money every day and you're already back here whining about something that happened 15-20 years ago. We didn't reduce your pay rates and take your pension. The company did. Stop trying to put all of this on the backs of junior pilots. We had nothing to do with it, and you honestly cannot expect people who make half of what you do to give up some of their compensation so you can have more. Move on. Don't tell me that my career is going to be great and so much better than yours so I can afford it either. I think the last year proved that that line of thinking is pure drivel.

I'll never forget the captains who told me that being furloughed is part of the job and that I'll be ok in the long run. There didn't seem to be much sympathy from people like you when I was going to lose my house and livelihood. That 20-03 vote was pretty interesting too. It really looked like senior guys didn't want to do a thing to ensure my life didn't crumble. So, why on earth do you think I need to make you richer after going through that? Most of the country lost their pensions in the 2000s. No one except for maybe government employees has been able to retain or get their pensions back. You are living in a dream world and are only bringing division amongst the pilot group.

Showing up on property and seeing my training pay rate and realizing I had to pay for my own hotel while in initial training told me exactly what I needed to know about how much the senior pilots were willing to take care of the junior pilots. None of you spent a waking moment caring about stuff like that. I'm sorry that you didn't get as much as you thought you would for retirement. That sounds like what happens to the majority of people on this planet though.

YOUR attitude and the incessant whining by deadzoners like you is extremely off-putting. Oh, and your timing to bring all of this up is impeccable too!

 

 

I'll just say what the vast majority of Delta pilots are going to do, whether they will admit it or not. If I feel like I'm shorted in the contract or it doesn't meet my personal needs and desires I'll vote no. If I think ALPA has done the best they're going to do and it's a marked improvement for me I'll vote yes. Its a very small % of pilots who will support what they believe to be a bad deal for themselves, even if it appears that their vote supports the greater good for "the profession".

Any contract with a DZ cutout will absolutely fail. Too many DZers are gone to just outmuscle the vote and too many young guys don't buy the DZ sob story anymore, especially after this last year. Senior ALPA insiders can't control the narrative as we proved in '15. Unless the contract caters to the majority of pilots it won't pass and any nod or wink to a special interest group will infuriate everyone else.

 

Do you really think folks hired after 2010 miss those points? People don’t drop into their Delta job out of the ether. Many of us - maybe even most of us - have been thinking about and preparing for this career since childhood. We aren’t oblivious to what happened to those who came before us... and if we are after years of subsequent active employment listening to our elders in Delta cockpits, well, your posts and mine in APC probably won’t help.

I think problems may come in when people compare “then” to “now” without a broader perspective on income. $175k a year 15 years ago was and is actually a $hit ton of money. The vast majority of Americans who were busting their butts in 2006-2009 sure weren’t generating that kind of income, with that kind of sick leave, that kind of paid vacation or your type of health care and travel benefits. Naturally, I’d rather have what we have now and I’ll keep scrapping for more in section 6. But if I am being honest, my sympathy for hardships is stronger for other demographics in other industries. There are plenty of things I’d sacrifice for (see my yes vote on 20-03)...”fully restoring” a hard-to-define (senior) dead-zoner major airline captain may not be at the top of that list. If I’m ever a 61 year old 350 captain with four earning years ahead of me... I’ll probably not expect much from young junior FOs unless that ask benefits them immediately as well.

 

I’ll add to my list from earlier in the thread—I’d also support a dinner for retired deadzoners following their first month of retirement hosted by Delta mgmt.

In exchange. The awkward only have one drink cause everyone’s watching me, and don’t chew with your mouth open new hire dinner is eliminated.

Actually AA does this in DFW for retired guys.

 

simply beautiful.

 

This is an interesting post. Especially the last sentence. I'd like to break it down a little further, but first I need you to define 'immediately'.

 

Was I only supposed to have one drink at that thing? Oops.