Everyone won’t agree on what the right amount is for retirement. I know my wife and I don’t, and we’re otherwise pretty similar when it comes to financial decisions. Personally, I don’t look narrowly at 401k as the only retirement vehicle. Because of the inherent restrictions, it is wholly ear-marked for use in old age, but it doesn’t mean that’s all I have been compensated for funding a theoretically larger retirement nest egg. I could personally commit 50% of my remaining income to retirement should I so choose. The HSA is another obvious place where people can put retirement money if they want.

Assuming I could get the same tax benefits (which I cannot, but work with me), I’d rather have ZERO money from my employer be mandated as retirement money and let me allocate how much I choose to put toward retirement. Just like vacation (which I want more of, and the old guys say heck no), it’s safe to assume we’re all different. Total income and that compensation’s ability to fund a comfortable retirement is far more relevant to me than the value of only the “Union-negotiated retirement”.

And honestly this is the group I have the most sympathy for. Not a dig at anyone else, but I think this group (2000-2001 hires) had a rougher run at DL than most other pilots on property.

I think the ship has sailed on a specific carve out, but there are definitely options that will help those hired pre 9/11 in the near term while being a benefit for post 2007 hires as that group gets closer to retirement. I think improving of both active and retiree medical would be a great start, as would my previous suggestion about increasing DC% after a certain longevity.

This has nothing to do with young versus old. It has everything to do with the tanksley-types that have a pension or pbgc, have also been collecting the same DC contribution as everyone else, and now want more (as in the past) on top of their pensions with suggestions of a COLA or something like that. And I am not that young.



Sorry, no. Been watching these types do what they do for too long now. And have been on the receiving end of it.



Uh-huh.



I am in their point of view. I lost my entire pension, and then I lost my targeted DC contribution that was supposed to make up for (lolz) the loss of said pension. While they kept their pension or part of it and gained the DC. And I got to enjoy the bankruptcy payrates as well. And now they want me to add more to their pension/pbgc with a COLA or something else? No thanks.



Yep. I am right there with 'ya on what we earned back then. It was nice coming back from furlough to enjoy continuing on probation pay. But hey, they "gave" us cobra. So it's all good.



But alas, as Trip 7 said, they won't be able to get stuff passed anymore due to the 1800 gone on the Veop.


The sun has set on their "empire."

Edit: once again I don't know why the quote function is putting that text in such a big font. I am not doing that. Italics didn't shrink it either.......hmm

Thanks for the "shout out." :D Appreciate the sentiments.

But I am under no delusion that anything will change for us.

Agreed. As a 2001 hire was furloughed 5 years. Came back to probation and around $80hr Maddog FO in Year 6. It think it was around Year 8 that I finally saw 100k. Stagnated for years and then didn’t see first upgrade until around Year 15 for NYC MD88 Capt. My PBGC payout is around $187 month when I retire. Lost out on prime earning years in my 30’s and 40’s. I am under no delusions either. There are probably less than 1000 of us in this demographic. But as a 50 year old Gen Xer that’s how we roll.

One more thing.....I voted Yes on any measure that would prevent pilots from being furloughed. I wouldn’t want anybody to have to put their family through that.

^^^^ +1 ^^^^

I don’t think a lot of guys here realize how badly the 2000-2001 hires got boned. I don’t dwell on it, but it makes me laugh when I hear guys moan about trivial #### like ‘they said the bids would be out today’ or dudes upset cause they don’t hold captain in 3 years.

Perspective needed.

A-Frikken-Men. Right there with you.

And I think the probation pay I came back to was $29.65. It was less than what I was making working for a scum-bag 135 operator during furlough. Breaking $100k was around almost year 10. No pbgc or frozen. It should have been simple (and right) to preserve for the few of us that had a targeted DC contribution in the joint contract. The fact that didn't happen says it all.

Yep - And don't forget we got 5 extra years............................................. ..in the right seat! :eek: :eek:

Scoop

2000-2001 hires do seem to have fared the worst. Surprisingly, most of the guys from that demographic who I've flown with actually complain the least and seem more willing to help out their junior co-workers than the guys hired in the 90s. Of course I'm generalizing here and there are exceptions to either side.

There are too many nuances to this discussion to really be able to target something effectively. It's unfortunately a crappy, unfair industry where you really have very little control over your destiny. It's all determined by when you get hired (which is a function of mostly when you were born), the state of the industry, the state of your airline, and (recently) government generosity.