With our latest iteration of "bases don't own flying" my ATL (and NYC) exposure has substantially increased. If you have any more than 2 hours on the ground you are in the airport ready reserve que. If you make it to the gate, the last checklist item is cell phones off and you don't know where I went. The chronic understaffing in ATL and NYC affects us all.

Correct, that is the reason I made sure to contact DALPA scheds. Make sure the other pilot got their proper pay as well.

I uphold my end of the contract, I expect the kompany to do so as well.

Guess that whole word "contract" has different meanings for different people.

What you just described violates the PWA if you are a line holder.

Exception 2 applied to my case. So nothing illegal about it.

You assumed that they were different report times because I said the other flight was late. It was late as they had been trying to find an FO. We both had an 0820 departure time. We were running early. The PHX flight finally went out albeit about 3.5 hours late.

Dig thru my post history, this happened in May. I posted it here in one of the threads and NuGuy said to make sure to contact the union. I did and they looked into it no violation, just the pay part. The re-route was legit.

So how many 9E people are we going to get from the flow before it is shutdown? Also, what if someone in that flow had previously interviewed with us and failed the interview? I guess that doesn't matter in the flow? Lots of questions about this.

I forget, are we still in contract negotiations???

Speaking of 2 + hour sits in ATL does anyone know if the gym in the A concourse is open yet? I have yet to rerouted mid-workout - must be good Karma. Either hat or they couldn't find me there. :D

Scoop

If, as you stated, it was legal per the contract, then it sounds like you have more an issue with the contract than the company.

Believe I read it is now open but there is a signup form online. You ha e to have an appointment, basically. Sorry I don’t have the deets; on my way home.


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Your rotation had to be delayed before they can apply section two. You clearly state the flight you were rerouted into should have pushed 10 minutes earlier and you had 20 minutes to your scheduled push. It had to sign in before your trip so section two does not apply.

Speaking of which... are the gyms open yet in ATL and DTW?

Great minds....

Not a gym guy, but if a shower and changing time is a legit delay for ready reserve, then I'll be trying to lose my Covid-19.

As was mentioned the ATL gym is open but you have to reserve a time. And no towels available, probably not ever coming back.

There are a multitude of items I am not happy with in the contract. However you can't honestly sit there and tell me the kompany is absolutely held harmless for their actions? How many grievances we have now?

Baby steps? I think we a well beyond that given the actions of the kompany as of the past 19 months. But I expect that we can close some of the many loopholes. QOL type stuff. I really hate fly now grieve later. I really hate the latitude we gave the kompany for being able to re-route us. Have us sit "airport ready reserve" (that's not in the contract is it? yet those 2+ hour sits in the ATL are just that).

DH.

Scope.

Honoring the bid.

GS Trigger.

AE's (how we liking that 365 - better not have any plans for the year)

Training scheduling.

The list goes on and on.....china flu was a distraction. Where are we now in the process? How many sections are still open?

Lots of areas to improve in our contract. Some will take some investment, some are low hanging fruit. If the last 19 months has taught us anything is that words have meaning and we must insure our contract language is pretty dang airtight. Give them .5microns of space and they will ram something thru on us, you can bank on it.

Yes I write my reps. I think they are getting pretty tired of hearing from me. I endeavor to persevere. Hope and change right?

I’m certain I didn’t say anything in my post about the company being held blameless.

I just don’t get whining about a legal reroute that you got premium pay for. I left a desk job 24 years ago knowing I would probably never have a 9-5 schedule anymore. There are too many variables in airline ops to have everything run perfectly all the time. That is why we have reroute language in the contract. **** happens. The contract is a give and take. Flights need to be covered, and in certain instances we get extra pay for it. Does the company seem to ignore the contract on occasion. Seems so. Do pilots do the same? Seems so. Neither is right. I for one am happy where I am. I’ll agree though, lots to be improved on.

Note: blah blah blah added for emphasis.

Why do you work as a pilot? Why don't you just buy a ticket and sit in the back?

This is absurdity.

You’d think 20 years in the military would imbue a sense of understanding for “change of plans”

guess not.

Gym is open, no reservation needed and no time limit. Must wear a mask and bring your own towel.

Anyone who's read Douglass Adams knows that the most important thing to bring on the road is a towel.

“A towel, [The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy] says, is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have. ..... use it to sail a miniraft down the slow heavy River Moth; wet it for use in hand-to-hand-combat; wrap it round your head to ward off noxious fumes or avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (such a mind-boggingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you); you can wave your towel in emergencies as a distress signal, and of course dry yourself off with it if it still seems to be clean enough.”

I’m not coming at you, nor am I necessarily defending Drum, but this is the second time you’ve mentioned “change of plans”. I totally agree that the company has a business to run and my paychecks always say Delta on them. I totally get that.

But at what point does it go to far? When you’re 20% and get rerouted out of all 3 layovers on a 4 day? When you bid 30 hour layovers at home and get rerouted out of SIX IN A ROW. Why bother bidding at all? It’s ridiculous.

I am more than happy to flex my schedule for the company, and honestly just at rotation guarantee, but they aren’t operating in good faith. Losing your 30 hour, that you bid for, because the Sodomizer predicts less than 30 minute connect time is BS.

Reroutes need to be more expensive for the company, period. Cost drives all long term decisions. We are all effectively on reserve now for the footprint of our trips. As the "need" to cover flying grows, so will the practice unless there is a conscious decision by management to reduce it. The only motivator is $$$.

I’m NB domestic in NYC and between 88 and 320 I’ve been rerouted less than 10 times in 5 years, and every single time it has been incredibly lucrative for me. So from my perspective the language is just fine. Which of us is correct?

With all this talk of reroutes I have a question. If you divert for weather, time-out, and then are rerouted and finish your trip more than 4 hours later than originally scheduled you get nothing except whatever extra block you flew right? I know the language seems pretty straight forward, but then again I've been wrong before.

Bergman is correct. I don't commute, but I think we should have positive space commuting. One doesn't need to have had bad reroutes to see our reroute language sucks. The fact that our union tells us to send them the reroutes to ensure it's paid out correctly, is enough to know it sucks.

As I recently said to someone else, you lead a charmed life my friend. I’m on the ER now and have been rerouted 3 times in the last 30 days. For no extra pay. I did get one day dropped. YMMV. Happy you’ve had better luck, but that doesn’t mean pilots aren’t getting worked over.

No joke here: I once got rerouted and, because it reduced credit, it also reduced pay.
Reroute language definitely needs improvement.

If you are on a regular line trip and get rerouted into a shorter trip, you are guaranteed the original trips pay/credit. You need to check your time card and make sure that adjustment was made when the trip closed.

Denny

You need to have that addressed. As a line holder, you should never get less than the value (pay and credit) of your original rotation as it stood before the reroute. In general, reroutes only get you extra pay if you do more than what you were scheduled to do and reroutes get you a lot more pay when you return back to your domicile more than 4 hours (domestic)/24 hours (intl).

[Edit - Denny is a way faster typer 😁]

Its is actually possible to have a reroute reduce pay and I had it happen more than once. It has always been quite common to get rerouted going through major hubs. 25 years ago we used to bet each other if we would get a reroute going through ATL. The way you lose money is if early in the rotation you have made a bunch of time increasing the value of the rotation and then you get rerouted. You are only guaranteed the original value. I don’t recall anyone really *****ing about reroutes back then because most of us considered it part of working for a airline. We didn’t get all the extra pay awarded now either as the contract simply paid you your original trip or the value of the reroute whichever was higher at straight rates. I was once rerouted from a turn into what ended up being 7 days. No premium pay. The SO did try and expense purchasing additional underwear but was denied!

Good to know we are making improvements in some areas over time. Are you satisfied now? I'm not. There needs to be a premium to prevent other than absolutely necessary changes. The auto-rerouter/optimizer has no checks or balances.

That was not uncommon on the Shuttle....especially on a 5-leg day where you overblock on the first two or three legs and then they drop the last turn rather than keep running in delay and this knock you back down to your original guarantee. All that "work" for nothing....well.....there was the earlier finish so you could have that going for you, which is nice. 😁

I guess it comes down to what you consider a necessary change. The key reason Delta survived and flourished post chapter 11 was RA taking the helm and making ontime and reliability the number one priority. Excelling at that is what led Delta to significant margin increases over the competition, rapid advancement fir pilots and the PS checks we enjoyed pre covid. Handcuff the company on reroutes and the numbers go in the wrong direction.

I think any reroute should be paid with reroute pay no matter what the cause of the reroute is. The senior guys who bid good trips with a lot of pay credit and good layovers really get the worst deal when a reroute happens. For junior line holders, a reroute probably improves their trip. Either way, I think reroute pay should always be awarded no matter what when a reroute occurs.

I disagree with your reroute centric on-time thesis. It has everything to do with employee efforts and the pilots among other groups making things happen. The scripted DXX timeline and the adherence to it by all workgroups while departmental changes were endured was the key. WDR, APU, fuel, catering, groomers running over HVCs to clean the cabin, etc.

I don't think that because our reroute language is better than it was 25 years ago means it's good. I think there is still room for improvement. For example, single pay, no credit for all flights/deadheads done during a reroute regardless of whether it's the first, middle, or last day.

It would help alleviate the pain from fact that currently your seniority means nothing once you sign in for your trip.

Seasonal layoffs used to be a thing in the airline industry, I guess we should just be thankful that we don't have those anymore...

HOGWASH. Who’s side are you on again? Holy freaking cow.

I’m not saying they’re not, but as the logic of this board dictates that the most egregious anecdotes become the assumed norm regardless of statistical frequency, simply color me skeptical that the loudmouths *aren’t* overpowering the narrative. But improve away at PWA language, I’m not going to stand in your way.

If you have to ask, you don’t read his posts regularly…

That happened to me too. My point was, as a regular line holder, you cannot be paid less than the original trip is worth.

Denny