You have signed in for your rotation.

You are sitting in the seat for the first leg of the rotation. Checklists done, just chatting. 20 minutes from push and you get re-routed. Like get up leave the jet you are on to go to another gate and operate a different trip...That should have pushed 10 minutes ago.

That is a late tag. Totally legal from the PWA.

Gotcha.

Hopefully they honored the exception to 23.L.2.a....otherwise not "totally legal" for a regular line-holder.
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I mean, you still can on the 717, but it might draw a bit of attention

Save that one for your retirement flight...

That's a great reroute. You'll get single pay and credit for what you were supposed to fly plus double pay, no credit for everything you do fly. It's not legal, but it's fly now, grieve later. They'll pay the above and they know it.

Not legal at all. I encourage all pilots to keep a copy of the contract handy and have a good basic knowledge of section 23.
You should have been very well compensated if you accepted the illegal reroute. This is not a fly now and grieve later situation as it’s black and white in the contract and not a gray area.

It's not legal, but it has happened. Like I said, you'll essentially get triple pay. Who cares what they do if getting 63 hours for a 4 day trip?

An IA mid-rotation is called a reroute. Not fair, especially for those who bid specific trips based on their seniority. I agree that some reroutes can be lucrative.

I agree it happens. He could however have refused the reroute. I have been rerouted illegally and told crew tracking it was not legal. They have removed us from the reroute in those situations most of the time. Some reroutes are a gray area and in that case fly now and grieve later applies. In one case they insisted we fly a reroute I felt was improper and it rained money on us. Copilots said we would never get paid. When the settlement came through the copilots promised I drink free for life on trips with either of them!

These reroutes suck. You get single pay no credit for anything no on your original rotation starting 14 hours after the reroute. It's usually the equivalent of a less than 2 hours for the deadhead back onto rotation. These ones don't pay enough for me to like them especially when it costs me a 32 hour layover in MSY or BNA.

It's very legal. According to DALPA and the PWA.

Instead of going to PHX for my 30 hour layover then back; I did an SXM turn and was done.

Yes I got paid properly.

370Esq asked what a "late tag" was, I gave him an example. Not the first time this has happened to me on this fleet. I know of a few others this has happened to as well. Not a singularity.

Drum,

You got some bad info - you cannot be legally rerouted prior to your first leg. I have seen it happen and guys took it and have seen guys say no way. Just think back to all the 23K and No ops of last spring - totally not allowed in the PWA.

L. Reroute
17
18 1. A pilot is subject to reroute as defined in Section 23 A. 45.
19 2. A regular pilot may not be rerouted:
20 a. prior to the airborne departure of the first flight segment of his rotation.

Scoop

I have been burned like that more times than I can count. Seniority means nothing if your 15% seniority trip gets yanked, a reserve gets your layover and you now have a double 9-hour DAY or IND.

so, you got triple pay for a trip that turned a 3-day into a day trip?

boo hoo, I guess

I did.

The point being - why bid a schedule when they just re-route at will.

Why even have PBS? Why have seniority?

I mean if you are going to ask that question, lets illustrate the absurdity by being absurd

Hey Scoop. I didn't have time to call anyone. After the fact, when I sent everything in to the DALPA scheduling guys, they said it was legit. They birddogged to make sure I was paid properly.

That's what I was told. That is what happened.

You could have refused it - look at 23.L. in the PWA totally Black and White.

Scoop

Well that happens too. I am no contract expert and many times I didn't think about stuff until after the fact, but for future reference for all APC folks - take the reroute if it works for you, but by all means know that you do not have to accept a reroute prior to being airborne on the first leg.

Scoop

Scoop....you can be re-routed prior to your first leg as a regular line holder but the Company must comply with the exception to 23.L.2.a (which was just below what you pasted). It sounds like they satisfied that exception in Drum's example.

Correct - that was the recent change but IIRC its basically just substituting a turn for another turn - is that how you see it?

If they just changed turns I really don't see an issue - same layovers etc. Then again once you are wheels in the well you are fair game.


Scoop

because things change. The fact that this very occasionally happens (once for me ever) and we are paid handsomely for it makes my level of concern over it pretty low.

as they say, flexibility is the key to air power.

Happened more than once.

It has only happened during the NQAT/UNA/personnel shortage of recent.

I expect more of the same throughout the coming months as the system is FUBAR.

Hopefully we normalize and right the manning personnel shortages by next spring

okay, so it happened to you twice and both times you came out ahead in both time and money. WhAt’S tHe PoInT oF bIdDiNg?!??!?

You are living a very charmed life my friend.

I was rerouted literally dozens, perhaps several dozen, of times in 2019 alone. Close to half my rotations. And usually for very little, if any, reroute pay.

My experience is not unique by a long shot. NB sucks lately. Reroute protection is a top-3 contract issue for me honestly.

Flexibility is the key to good sex BTW.

Very plain and black and white section of the contract. Cant believe contract admin told you it was legal.

Yes. Find it very hard to believe any scheduling committee personnel at ALPA would have told him that was legal. The very fact he was paid assignment pay (probably from a dispute filed by the SC) is in direct contradiction of that.

Fixed it for you. 😁

And yes, basically they can legally substitute a turn but the exception is pretty narrow. Looks like Drum did not have a turn though if it was one leg to a 30-hour layover. Guess they just treated it like tag-on flying at the end of a regular line holder rotation. Not permitted by the PWA but still dangled out there. The tag-on used to result in IA pay for the tag-on portion. Heard an ugly rumor the Company was starting to pay only the additional time, no premium because they felt the pilot "knowingly and voluntarily" waived his/her/other rights under the PWA and therefore was not entitled to the customary IA pay. As you said, gotta know your PWA well enough to know that something just doesn't seem right.

Everything bad that can happen to a pilot at Delta has happened to drum 35 times

Delta is trying to make Drum a multimillionaire, he is going to fight them every inch of the way.

The odds of getting rerouted are directly proportional to your proximity to ATL, kind of like its the black hole of reroutes, once you are under its gravitational influence you are basically doomed. :eek: I have been mostly based in LAX on NB aircraft the last 21 years and rarely get rerouted - probably average less than once a year. I think every reroute except one was flying into ATL.

I agree that we need to look at this closely for section 6, I imagine if your a NB Pilot based in ATL it can be very frustrating.

Scoop

They took a 2 day trip out to PHX and made it a 1 day turn. Totally legit. They can reroute you after sign in and BEFORE you operate your first leg of the original rotation.

You do get paid well for it and it is not a section 23 issue in my case. That only comes in to play during IROP, which we were not under at the time of the re-route.

It's not tag on flying either.


And sailing, if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a QOL kinda guy. I burned the candle at both ends in my 20+ years of military flying. I'm done with that.

I bid a QOL type schedule. That is why I get really chapped when I get re-routed (which happens often) out of the blue (e.g. no IROP).

Here are the only reasons you can be rerouted prior to your first flight. Your explanation does not match any of the reasons.

A regular pilot may not be rerouted: prior to the airborne departure of the first flight segment of his rotation. Exception: A regular pilot may be rerouted prior to the airborne departure of the first flight segment of his rotation provided: 1) his rotation begins with a roundtrip within a single FDP that has been delayed, 2) the reroute is for another roundtrip within a single FDP that is scheduled to depart no earlier than his original roundtrip, and 3) he is returned to his original rotation following the roundtrip into which he is rerouted.

What you stated: You are sitting in the seat for the first leg of the rotation. Checklists done, just chatting. 20 minutes from push and you get re-routed. Like get up leave the jet you are on to go to another gate and operate a different trip...That should have pushed 10 minutes ago.

Your rotation was not delayed and you were rerouted into a rotation that reported prior to yours. Illegal on both accounts.

Take away my multi day trip and give me a one day turn. And pay me premium? Yes please.

you’d think triple pay and two extra days off would be a boon to QOL

It would be for me!

No these reroutes that pay 300% for 50% of the work must end. I bid layovers for a reason and this abrogates my seniority. I would like to speak with the manager of QOL.

This is so true... What a misfortunate guy. I can't imagine going through life so angry...and I'm by no means a company apologist.

I seem inclined to agree that Drum's posted scenario appears to be a violation of the PWA. If it, in fact, paid triple (original rotation plus 2x value of the substituted turn) that also supports that being violation just as an unpermitted tag-on at the end of a regular line-holder's rotation would be handled. Not usually getting triple pay for a permitted scheduling adjustment when green slips aren't involved.

It’s actually quadruple pay. They also have the identify the pilot who should have done the flying and pay them single pay as well.

I bid for the PHX long overnights.

The re-route obviates my bid.

Simple as that.

Problem is people like you. I can throw money at a problem all day long, doesn't ever fix the systemic causes. We got to see that in summer 2019 now didn't we.