I have nothing to add to this thread, but I did want to say that I am filing this gem away in my brain to be dropped at an opportune time during some future conversation...

 

That’s a great question. I think it was a gallows humor term to describe a certain level of unduly arbitrary failures in training, and the upshot being that a training failure would de facto freeze someone into that regional franchise. I’m not saying it was/is an actual program, just that I’ve heard rumblings. My involvement wasn’t to adjudicate why there are warts on a training record and whether they were correct or not. I do know that owning mistakes, and (much more importantly) taking lessons from those mistakes to get better is an important component to overcoming them in future interviews.

 

From a 9E guy, I hope you guys are successful in your arbitration. Fight for scope with all you guys have. If Delta wants that lift so desperately, let them fly it with Delta airplanes and Delta pilots.

 

Are you sure about this????

Didn't we trade Scope for the following:
A 42% pay cut.
The ability to have 2 weeks less of vacation per year.
Maybe it was QOL issues, yep thats it, we traded Scope for the ability to lower our QOL.
No wait, I remember it clearly now, we traded Scope for the ability to give up our retirements. I'm positive now, management wanted us to loosen Scope and we insisted only if they kill the DB

Note to DALPA - stop trading for stuff. Or maybe management has become adept at using the RLA and the every decade crisis to take us to the cleaners whenever they can.

Yes, DALPA and all the majors have made many mistakes over the years IRT Scope but we never traded Scope away.

Scoop

 

Bull****

You write "very few scope limits in contracts" but like Southwest's scope section, not much is needed to state "all Delta flying will be performed by Delta pilots in accordance with the Delta Pilot Working Agreement." Seventeen words.

Back in those days ASA did not perform "Delta flying." ASA had it's own code, it's own marketing, revenue and ticket sales. In some markets it competed with Delta. It was run by Robert Priddy who went straight to the creation of AirTran doing the same thing.

ASA was a codeshare partner, meaning that Delta could put passengers on ASA, but they also handed over nearly all, 98% of the ticket price to ASA to fly what then became ASA's passenger.

This is a much different arrangement than buying ASA, canceling all of ASA's code and calling it "Delta" while keeping all the money.

The ASA pilots were, by any definition, an acquired airline; just like Northwest Airlines. They deserved a merger. The Delta MEC (JJ O'Donnell & Giambusso) created this alter-ego scope **** show out of pure ****ing bigotry and a desire to do favors for their squadron buddies rather than follow ALPA's Admin Manual and do their jobs.

We've had to live with the mess and it has cost our pilots hundreds of millions of dollars in aggregate and cost our employer billions. The sooner we end this the better.

Scope = ALL DELTA FLYING DONE BY DELTA PILOTS

 

Not true.

Pull the transcripts from the Delta bankruptcy hearings. Look at Northwest Airlines "Ziplines" publications. In both places it is spelled out where scope was traded for "bargaining credits" and these $630,000,000 in "credits" were used to offset quality of life, retirement, pay and other sections of the respective pilot working agreements.

Scope has repeatedly been sold; harming junior pilots to benefit more senior pilots.

 

Explain to me how 9E is any different when the customer buys a Delta ticket, gets on a Delta branded airplane that operates on Delta's risk management program.

 

I used to think not having a degree should be a hard no. Now I think not having a degree should require at least 4000 more PIC hours than the pilot who does have a degree. Kind of like a penalty for trying to take a short cut in life. Just my opinion.

 

DO YOUR EMPLOYEE SURVEYS

Let management know how you feel about their constant and repeated breaches of our pilot working agreement.

 

What employee surveys?