The airlines are also military contractors, they strive to maximize the number of veteran workers.

Which regional is that?

 

Meh. They like veterans because they are generally a known commodity good for their business and that’s it.

 

Ah yes, the "who they knew" or "what HR box they checked" argument - both are real in the small scale anecdotes, but the return to the mean, which is still the VAST majority of pilots hired, do not comport with the outlier anecdotes. I get to see the inputs (applications) and short term results (calls for interview or not) of an awful lot of candidates. My experience is that while there are outliers in highly qualified that get overlooked by one major or another, my (limited) experience is that they still get get called for interviews at other majors. I also see the occasional marginally qualified pilot get called for an interview at one major, but that's about it. The vast majority that get calls, get calls at multiple majors or not at all, and it correlates HIGHLY with their efforts to play the HR game, which I agree, is 100% a game, but it's how you get non-pilots to sort through applications and make invites for people that do something they don't really understand (fly airplanes). The sidestory on 9E and the SSP and DGI has also been a tragedy of errors: The company (9E), the union really hurt those early interviews with rosy (unrealistic) expectations of what was going to happen. One day interview, no pysch eval, no problem! Just a handshake and introduction really. The reality was that it was the same, structured gauntlet that had always been in place as day 1 of the interview, so the message given to pilots really sent them into a situation that many were not prepared to navigate. Add that some did not cover themselves in glory (fail to show for interview, arrive without a suit, act semi indignant about the prospect of moving from left seat to right seat if they moved to DAL), and you put a target on the backs of those that followed. It was a recipe for disaster, and many would agree that it was a disaster.

While on the subject of games, lets talk game of large and small thrones. One of the lesser known kingdoms within each of the majors is this little place called pilot recruitment. Here, HR professionals tell the story to their management that they are finding the "most qualified pilots to enhance and protect our brand (DAL, UAL, AAL, UPS, FedEx, etc)." Their ability to protect the brand affects their own pay and the influence of their kingdom. A flow, from anywhere, is an affront to them for a couple of reasons: 1) If DAL (or pick your major) can get 10% of its new pilots from flow X, couldn't we save 10% of our pilot recruitment budget? And if yes to 10%, why not more? What prince or princess wants to see their kingdom reduced in such a way? The result is that they will employ a variety of reasons, both explicit, and implicit to avoid diminishing their kingdom. 2) A flow is an indictment and threat to the process they've invested themselves in. It's a personal investment that they feel attached to, and are not interested in seeing changed.

Whether any of these things are the way they ought to be is different than what they are, and sometimes the failure to respond to the reality is on the pilots. I think the process could definitely be better at DAL, but I can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first.

 

I agree that in a not so distant past, the mil guys did a better job of networking and passing on the intel. The nature of the flying squadrons (my own background) is that you are likely to know far more about even the clowns you don't like than what you are likely to know about just about anyone if you matriculate via the civilian route. I still think that there are two big discriminators in application and interview success: 1) Mil guys tend to look at the new world of civilian flying as unknown enemy territory, and they invest far more in the research, practice, and paid outside help to navigate the application and interview process. There is a lot to be said for the variety of commercial application and interview prep services, and my (limited) experience is that civilian only pilots tend to discount the value of these companies more frequently, often because they're "already doing the same job." 2) To the degree that it matters, companies value the military trained pilots because of its history as a sink or swim proposition (not to say that hasn't changed or some clowns have gotten through). Contrast that with the wickets of getting your ticket as a civilian only ($$$ and time), and they feel an assurance (I'm open to the argument that it's misplaced) that surviving military pilot training and military flying is a good discriminator to rely upon.

I would say that civilians have one advantage that military pilots do not: time flexibility. The commitment to active duty after pilot training and the service commitments after moves, or the need to be current in the cockpit, create a strong element of lucky timing for many military guys that a pilot at a regional, 135, etc. doesn't need to worry about in the same way (2 weeks notice). Certainly not a perfect system, but not really stacked with a decisive advantage one way or another.

 

what regional was this? I have to say, I thought training at DL was considerably easier than at my regional. And from my friends at other regionals, I don’t think it was just where I came from that was harder. Maybe things have changed with a shortage of qualified applicants.

 

It was a AA flow eligible airline.

 

interesting, thanks for the reply. Hopefully this was an isolated incident(to just that class). but something tells me it’s not.

 

I've heard from pilots at a couple of different regionals about the perception that a "franchise tag" was sometimes employed. The "franchise tag" was persnickety or gratuitous failures handed out on training events that might act as an obstacle or deterrent for a pilot to try and go somewhere else down the road. At a regional with a flow, that would seem like a way of not having other airlines raid their training pipeline. Not having seen it personally, I can't speak to it, but there are certainly rumblings out there that it goes on.

 

Having discussed with the hiring gurus extensively the military advantage is largely in servant leadership. By default serving in the military is in an of itself a servant leader job, but those inside the military know that stratifying yourself for further promotion often means you must engage in many voluntary projects, such as pilot for a day with make a wish, habitat for humanity etc. In general I've come to see most regional pilots have had very few opportunities to engage in these activities whereas in the military these are staples in ones career. When it comes to hiring, just because one is qualified on the flying side does not offset the prized servant leadership angle that our hiring process values.

 

there are rumblings, sure, but it’s pretty ineffective considering that about half of our hiring comes from regionals. Wonder how they choose who gets the tag