Originally Posted by Yoohoo1

So, if the contract would have been one year shorter(amendable at end of 2018), do you think we would have gotten a deal in the 15 months prior to COVID? Based on what I remember about the adversarial relations and Company immediately applying for mediation, I don’t think so. And then we’d be 4 percent down from where we are now.

Originally Posted by Herkflyr

I suppose that was my point. I have no problem with LAX wanting all the Hawaii flying that departs from LAX. What I am reading from them is that they also think they should fly all the Hawaii flying that departs other bases...and they should also get European flying from east coast bases as often as they can cram it in (think, relief pilot pairings).

I actually don't have a big problem, when crew resources occasionally puts flying that "should" be "owned" by a base in another base's bid package. Think SLC guys flying ATL-FRA as part of a long SLC trip--or vice versa. It's a complex world out there, flying is always being amended, and as we are constantly reminded, "no base owns any city pair."

However I think it reasonable to assume that *most* of the time, ATL guys should fly ATL-Europe and ATL-S. America, just like DTW guys should fly DTW-Europe and DTW-S. America, and LAX guys should fly LAX-Europe and LAX-Hawaii. Occasional exceptions where "other bases are taking our flying" as deemed needed by Crew Resources--that's just the airline industry. What isn't cool is when one base's union RCC rep advocates for more of that, encouraging his LAX pilots to pester crew resources--always to his base's advantage of course. That's not cool at all.

Originally Posted by iaflyer

Well - if everyone LEC wants the flying that is in their base, and other bases's good flying too... how's that gonna work?

Originally Posted by airplanes

So I’m new to the world of contracts but it seems weird to me that UAL has significantly more WB aircraft and pretty much the same pay scale. Was that a result of some superior bargaining? Is Delta ever going to get closer to the WB percentage of UAL or would that level of scope protection just cost too much negotiating capital.

Originally Posted by Mesabah

UAL has been a widebody airline for as long as anyone can remember. Will Delta get like that..... in the post Covid world, it's anyone's guess. Prior to Covid, if you went over to the flyertalk forums, our HVC's preferred being placed on a foreign carrier for international, and Delta liked being a ticket broker, while booking profits on airline investments.
As far as the history of scope, prior to the 1990's, airlines had unlimited codeshare ability, as it isn't restricted by the NMB. Protections were fought for in the following years. You'll never get a clear answer of what exactly happened in those years, so it's best to focus on the future.

Originally Posted by NuGuy

The 1980s wasn’t that long ago. Prior to that UAL had some WB domestic flying and mainland to Hawaii, that was basically it.

UALs international WB really took off when they picked up pieces from PanAm, including their entire Pacific ops, their LHR routes and their stuff down to South America. That all happened in the 80’s.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

United picked up the LHR and South America stuff in 90 and 91. One thing not mentioned on here is that while UAL historically has had more widebody aircraft the average number of seats per aircraft was larger at Delta for a long time period. UAL had few mid sized aircraft while Delta had a huge 757/767 fleet. UAL was a massive 737 operation with widebodies above that. I suspect today they have more seats per aircraft in part because we have added a large 100 to 130 seat fleet and downsized the 757 fleet. UAL has exited the 100 seat market at the mainline. It also would depend on if you count all their parked 777’s in the fleet totals. Last published number is 52 we’re parked as of 1 May. Give or take a few airframes Delta has 102 operating Aircraft 764-400/A330 or larger. America 112 and UAL about 120. If UAL brings back the parked 777’s they will of course have a big advantage over Delta and American.

Originally Posted by C17man

I think the Pratt 777s have already begun to hit the line. I see all have been approved for re-entry into service, with 13 already flying.