I don't "cling" to that at all. It not only doesn't bother me in the slightest, I'd never consider a trip through VA Ave and a loss of relative BES seniority to chase a one jump fleet raise anyway. Its mostly on paper as staying senior usually pays far more than the paper raise in rate differences if you know how to work it. The power of seniority massively trumps a one plane step raise in almost every case. Even super senior WB FO to Junior NB CA is only the raise it appears to be if you don't know how to (or can't be bothered to) use iCrew.

What the banding and especially the longevity pay peeps never seem to explain is how will we get any significant net improvement with those models, unilaterally, without any overt or unintended concessions. We ain't on the verge of getting 350 pay for all (at least outside the schoolhouse) so any "one rate" scenario would be at the expense of higher rates in some categories. We then say how much it would magically save the company, yet they're not interested in it (or at least whatever our terms would be).

IMO we could see some additional banding lumped into a CBA but nothing huge. Its not a high priority for me either regardless of how many 350's we have or 380's we might get (lol). LBP actually serves as a huge disincentive to recapture or grow bottom end flying as well.

 

Every time something happens w/ other employees threads like this happen. What we need to do is worry about our contract. Contact your reps. Wear the lanyards. Tell your CP’s you’re not happy seeing our wages erode vs. inflation while on an expired (frozen) contract. Go to the picket events. Give to the ALPA PAC. Love or hate ALPA, they are the only ones who are looking out for our careers. If Delta could manage it, we’d all get 50% pay cuts and most of the flying would be done by Endeavor. Wake up fellas. That’s the reality. Engage your reps. Stop worrying about a 4%. Don’t look at the nickel on the floor in front of you…. Keep your eye on the C note across the street.

 

Not to quibble, but there is no such thing as a super senior WB FO to Junior NB captain move. The super senior WB FOs are SENIOR. If they moved to NB captains they would be senior there too.

 

Ya I'm not talking about you. We have guys that whine to high heaven about how we only have 17 planes at the top rate, blah blah blah. But then you bring up banding the 330/764 to the 350 rate and they whine you can't give one group a bigger pay raise than another. It's just disingenuous to say we only have 17 planes at the top rate but then be against banding all our WB like the other airlines have.

 

Just so we are all on the same page, 2 raises of 4% is what the noncons will have since our section 6 negotiations started. That's an 8.16% raise from the baseline. With the interim 4% set as a standard for retro. I don't care what they get but it is necessary to keep track of their progress because when it is compared to inflation adjusted bankruptcy wages, they are still ahead.

 

Agreed. But this isn't just about that 4%. This is about our CBA because its about the process itself. The company cannot be allowed to claim we're de-facto negotiating for other groups (especially when that's factually and legally incorrect) and then simultaneously make the claim that we can't use that same logic ourselves.

The company's star players keep taking 5 steps without dribbling so they can dunk. Its time the ref starts calling it.

 

Depends how you define it. Super could mean only the top 1% to some while top 20% to others.

I looked once and the top ATL ER FO was like 500. Didn't even go to Europe either. Just bid day turns. So yes if that pilot bid NB CA he'd still be very senior. But the point stands.

 

that person can’t hold day turns as a captain out of ATL?

 

That doesn't matter. Some pilots like their uber seniority, as in single digits in the category. The 7ER FO mentioned took the VEOP. He was 1000 numbers senior to the #2 FO. There are some who have zero intention of upgrading no matter how senior.

 

No idea. This was a few years ago when I saw it as well. But it was very surprising to me. Perhaps a move to A in same BES could get day turns at that seniority, but not 100% of the ones wanted on 100% of the days 100% of the time.

Another pilot refused to bid up in base to a much better category (pay, trips, layovers, legs, etc) solely because he would go from #1 to #3 in BES. Some folks get that wrapped up around being king.