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Old 10-02-2025 | 05:23 PM
  #9911  
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Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad
I bet there’s plenty on reserve that have a witching hour that 12 hours does not work with our commuter clause that would disagree.
You think it’s really that many? It seems everyone is always converted to SC. Just from talking to guys and reading boards there are significantly more gripes regarding reserve and trip coverage than I ever heard previously.
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Old 10-02-2025 | 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by marcal
I don’t know. I hear vastly more gripes about reserve now than I did under previous rules. We also have endless coverage issues. Seems it was better previously.
Horrid take.
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Old 10-02-2025 | 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by marcal
I strongly disagree. What needs to be prioritized is getting back to trip coverage that works as intended just like the previous 97 years this airline existed.
ISWYDT

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Old 10-02-2025 | 05:57 PM
  #9914  
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Originally Posted by marcal
I don’t know. I hear vastly more gripes about reserve now than I did under previous rules. We also have endless coverage issues. Seems it was better previously.
Originally Posted by marcal
You think it’s really that many? It seems everyone is always converted to SC. Just from talking to guys and reading boards there are significantly more gripes regarding reserve and trip coverage than I ever heard previously.
First, the only gripes I hear about reserve is them not following SC assignment priorities. There is almost no other gripes. Anyone correlating SC usage with the current contract is ignoring that they could have done this and often did do this previously. The current contract is actually more financially difficult for the company to justify SC usage than in the past. If we went back to 12 hours, literally nothing would change regarding SC.

And yes, the vast majority of commuters have a witching hour or more. Let's assume the last flight leaves at 7. The first commutable trip in the morning for most people can't check in prior to 9 for most major city markets. If you could magically appear at the airport at 7, that alone is a 2 hour dead zone. It's really more like a 3-4 hour dead zone. You can get called at 6p for a 6a report and be completely hosed.
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Old 10-02-2025 | 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
First, the only gripes I hear about reserve is them not following SC assignment priorities. There is almost no other gripes. Anyone correlating SC usage with the current contract is ignoring that they could have done this and often did do this previously. The current contract is actually more financially difficult for the company to justify SC usage than in the past. If we went back to 12 hours, literally nothing would change regarding SC.

And yes, the vast majority of commuters have a witching hour or more. Let's assume the last flight leaves at 7. The first commutable trip in the morning for most people can't check in prior to 9 for most major city markets. If you could magically appear at the airport at 7, that alone is a 2 hour dead zone. It's really more like a 3-4 hour dead zone. You can get called at 6p for a 6a report and be completely hosed.
Yeah a lot of people forget to factor in prep/drive time in the witching hour. No one was going to the airport every evening to be in position to get on the last flight of the night just in case they got the dreaded 12 hour call out for the 0600 show. I’m 20 minutes from my commute airport and I reasonably need to be called close to 90 minutes from departure. That gives me just enough time to change, put my stuff in the car, drive, park, get to the terminal, get randomed at KCM, and get to the gate before they close the door 15 minutes early. I haven’t heard of anyone who has a witching hour under the new 18 hour callout, other than maybe some new hires who are jacked into a cross country commute or someone in some podunk city with no direct service to any hub requiring a 2 leg commute, but those people could be hosed even with a longer call out. 18 hours is a nice number that provides ample commute options while keeping reserves reasonably available for the company to use.
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Old 10-02-2025 | 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SideStickMonkey
Ugh. Good for them but this needs to stop. It's harming everyone else down the seniority list.
Is there anything worth $$millions that the MEC can unilaterally give to the Kompany? In return, we could get a pinky promise to follow the PWA.

A5S

(Yes, this is sarcasm ... and a 'K' in remembrance of Drum)
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Old 10-02-2025 | 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tennisguru
Yeah a lot of people forget to factor in prep/drive time in the witching hour. No one was going to the airport every evening to be in position to get on the last flight of the night just in case they got the dreaded 12 hour call out for the 0600 show. I’m 20 minutes from my commute airport and I reasonably need to be called close to 90 minutes from departure. That gives me just enough time to change, put my stuff in the car, drive, park, get to the terminal, get randomed at KCM, and get to the gate before they close the door 15 minutes early. I haven’t heard of anyone who has a witching hour under the new 18 hour callout, other than maybe some new hires who are jacked into a cross country commute or someone in some podunk city with no direct service to any hub requiring a 2 leg commute, but those people could be hosed even with a longer call out. 18 hours is a nice number that provides ample commute options while keeping reserves reasonably available for the company to use.
And just to expound, a 12 hour call out at 6p doesn't give you a legal commute in most markets. Most first flights arrive between 6:30-8 depending on time changes
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Old 10-02-2025 | 06:30 PM
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The biggest trip coverage problem this company has is it is short of pilots.

If they have reserves, nothing else matters because that’s as far as you go on the coverage ladder.

They run this place like an old school commuter. Use reserves to staff the airline and then use premium to cover the helmet fires. Well is dry after that.
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Old 10-02-2025 | 06:40 PM
  #9919  
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Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis
The biggest trip coverage problem this company has is it is short of pilots.

If they have reserves, nothing else matters because that’s as far as you go on the coverage ladder.

They run this place like an old school commuter. Use reserves to staff the airline and then use premium to cover the helmet fires. Well is dry after that.
Thats thanks to a Ex Endeavor manager that it’s now in flight ops. Run a legacy as a regional and when things doesn’t work use many excuses. Also, what’s a SIL???
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Old 10-02-2025 | 06:45 PM
  #9920  
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Originally Posted by marcal
I strongly disagree. What needs to be prioritized is getting back to trip coverage that works as intended just like the previous 97 years this airline existed.

Fixing 23M7 is lipstick on a pig. Until this current PWA cycle it was never an issue. Time to sort out the coverage process whether that entails altering the reserve rules(which I think would help and I think many would be open to with the SC fiascos, etc), or mandating proper training of schedulers, etc.

I’ve been told by very intelligent folks in ALPA that the alteration of the reserve rules in this current PWA, drive a tremendous amount of the failed coverage sequences.

Id be totally fine going back to our old reserve rules. 18hr LC has backfired in my opinion.
Say what now?

I’ll assume you mean alter the reserve rules to establish:

1) Reserve Rotation Guarantee
2) SCC increased to 2 hours regardless if used or not
3) Remove scheduler discretion from awarding SCs above 6
4) Sick if needed on reserve
5) Remove reserve (and reroute) carveouts from consecutive sub 12 hr layovers
6) Remove reserve carve out for reroutes needing to violate an X day to get the punitive reroute pay.

Cause the only other thing you could have meant was unilaterally giving tons of concessions to the company.

Reserve was improved during the last contract. Let’s keep improving it, not give it away.


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