PilotBases

Sure, but neither do what I’d presume we want the 350-1000 to do, and both are markedly larger than the 767. Wonder what exactly the order is for, growth or replacement then.

chrisreedrules

Growth if the demand is there. Replacements if it isn’t.

gloopy

It might not be ideal, but they are adding a lot of seats, including premium lay flat seats, at a deep discount. If we keep ignoring that we will wake up to eye watering revenue and margins lost.

Was it Bethune whho said you're only as smart as your dumbest competitor?

The worst thing we could do is to continue to allow this on their terms. They undercut us deeply below our cost, we undercut them deeper below theirs, subsidized across a broader profitable market.

It doesn't matter if its the best plane to do it in, it only matters if its good enough to profitably (for them) continue to dump deep discounts in premium seats and clearly it is. If we don't use their stratedgy against them, we'll wake up to millions of added seats and gutted FC yields and by the time we fully feel the effects, they'll be ready to get that 3rd fleet type and do it even better.

Nantonaku

Isn’t this basically what plays out in every market? Even domestically?

Tinpusher007

I have always thought the -10 would work well for us given the company's love of the A330; a relatively big airplane without too much range and great CASM. The -9 o the other hand would be redundant to the A359 and far too much range to be used on routes that we currently use the 767s for.

Tinpusher007

I dont believe the 787 is competing with the A350-1000 in the rumored RFP. Boeing is allegedly shopping the 777X to us in order to land an order from a US carrier as UA and AA already operate relatively young 777-300ERs and dont need anything bigger.

Tinpusher007

While I agree that we should not ignore them, I think the idea that we will one day "wake up" to them dominating the market and us losing our shirts is flawed. Virgin Atlantic started out as the cool new kid on the block just like B6 and they have yet to dethrone BA and likely never will. B6 have "disrupted" the transcontinental market with mint and we still have a commanding position; as do UA and AA. Lastly, as it relates to trans Atlantic flying, as much as we hate them as pilots, the JVs do command large amounts of traffic in the markets we have them in; AMS, CDG and to a lesser extent LHR for us, FRA, MUC for UA/LH and LHR for AA/BA. B6 may kick up some dust with their, admittedly competitive product and cheaper fares on A321s but they dont pose a huge threat. And if the day comes that they do, Im sure we will answer them. They are often cheaper than us but not really cheap overall.

Vsop

Delta Will Fly To London Gatwick Airport To Stick It To JetBlue And Norse Atlantic
I am happy we are addressing the problem in the way you described.

marcal

Yup………….filler

gloopy

The dynamics of it? Yes. Kicking back in Corinthian leather chairs swirling thousand dollar Scotch in a snifter and lighting Ghurka Royal Courtesan's with $100 bills is fun until the money runs out and you wish you had those Billions in burnback money back and are not faced with overlapping fields of fire from redundantly irrational critical mass competitors and suddenly have to shrink to profitability again.

The so called "pilot shortage" is somewhat saving them from themselves, but its sugar high in limiting competitors growth rates will only last so long. When the next "lost decade" happens we will have to deal with uber junior ULCC's who now seat dump millions of lay flat premium seats below our costs. We can deal with them now on our terms by peeling off some profits, or we can deal with them later on their terms by surrendering marketshare to salvage yields in a crumbling revenue environment.

IMO all such attempts now should be met with crushing resistance before the cancer spreads. But that requires long term thinking and B-schools don't focus on that anymore.