Post-Positive Space Issues?
11-07-2022 | 03:13 AM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,872
Likes: 189
United is actually being forward-thinking by looking at adding crew bases in popular places to live. EWR, DEN, and SFO just don’t cut it for most people with the cost of living being what it is and inflation/mortgage interest rates ravaging middle class income and wealth.
With flights more full than ever, interest rates steadily rising, single-family home affordability nearly out of reach for most, and bases in high cost of living cities pilots simply can’t/won’t move to base. And an awful commute will only be put up with for so long. Pilots will leave. Legacy airlines are good jobs, but they aren’t even close to what they used to be. There is better quality of life to be had at the LCCs and you’ll make darn near comparable pay.
The legacy airline job has been steadily eroded and at the same time the LCC and major jobs have gotten way better. Hell regional Captains are making more than legacy Captains at this point. Cost of living is through the roof and home affordability is at an all-time low. There isn’t a single base at Delta that is even remotely appealing to most new hires unless they already live there or have family that does. Like it or not Delta is going to have to change with the changing times or be left in the dust. It’s a different world and a different airline than the one many of you came up in.
With flights more full than ever, interest rates steadily rising, single-family home affordability nearly out of reach for most, and bases in high cost of living cities pilots simply can’t/won’t move to base. And an awful commute will only be put up with for so long. Pilots will leave. Legacy airlines are good jobs, but they aren’t even close to what they used to be. There is better quality of life to be had at the LCCs and you’ll make darn near comparable pay.
The legacy airline job has been steadily eroded and at the same time the LCC and major jobs have gotten way better. Hell regional Captains are making more than legacy Captains at this point. Cost of living is through the roof and home affordability is at an all-time low. There isn’t a single base at Delta that is even remotely appealing to most new hires unless they already live there or have family that does. Like it or not Delta is going to have to change with the changing times or be left in the dust. It’s a different world and a different airline than the one many of you came up in.
If UAL thought they were having pilot recruitment issues they would have fixed their reserve system not made it worse. They might even have offered PS but that was another bad rumor.
Last edited by sailingfun; 11-07-2022 at 03:30 AM.
11-07-2022 | 03:19 AM
#184
Line Holder
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 860
Likes: 64
From: 717a
We moved out of ATL (not PTC) 4 years ago to the South Carolina coast. I wish we’d done it years earlier as the quality of life here is so much better. . Yes commuting can be a challenge at times, but so can ATL traffic and that employee bus.
When I was hired 31 years ago Delta didn’t have a JS policy and actively discouraged commuting. Every other airline allowed JS, but few would give us a seat since we could not reciprocate. When we finally got JS I remember hearing a good number of pilots actually complain about it as they didn’t want to share their cockpits with pilots that “chose to not live in base”. We’ve still got that sort here apparently, can’t stand to see someone else get a good deal.
I think PSC will return in some form. It will be another carrot for a dwindling supply of pilots. High interest rates, and 2 income families make moving a lot harder. Often the spouse is the primary breadwinner. But Delta won’t be the first to make it contractual. This company is reactive, not proactive.
Oh and I’d drive the 4:15 to ATL before I’d ever move back to that ****hole. Screw the overtime.
When I was hired 31 years ago Delta didn’t have a JS policy and actively discouraged commuting. Every other airline allowed JS, but few would give us a seat since we could not reciprocate. When we finally got JS I remember hearing a good number of pilots actually complain about it as they didn’t want to share their cockpits with pilots that “chose to not live in base”. We’ve still got that sort here apparently, can’t stand to see someone else get a good deal.
I think PSC will return in some form. It will be another carrot for a dwindling supply of pilots. High interest rates, and 2 income families make moving a lot harder. Often the spouse is the primary breadwinner. But Delta won’t be the first to make it contractual. This company is reactive, not proactive.
Oh and I’d drive the 4:15 to ATL before I’d ever move back to that ****hole. Screw the overtime.
11-07-2022 | 03:45 AM
#185
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 525
Likes: 25
From: 320
We moved out of ATL (not PTC) 4 years ago to the South Carolina coast. I wish we’d done it years earlier as the quality of life here is so much better. . Yes commuting can be a challenge at times, but so can ATL traffic and that employee bus.
When I was hired 31 years ago Delta didn’t have a JS policy and actively discouraged commuting. Every other airline allowed JS, but few would give us a seat since we could not reciprocate. When we finally got JS I remember hearing a good number of pilots actually complain about it as they didn’t want to share their cockpits with pilots that “chose to not live in base”. We’ve still got that sort here apparently, can’t stand to see someone else get a good deal.
I think PSC will return in some form. It will be another carrot for a dwindling supply of pilots. High interest rates, and 2 income families make moving a lot harder. Often the spouse is the primary breadwinner. But Delta won’t be the first to make it contractual. This company is reactive, not proactive.
Oh and I’d drive the 4:15 to ATL before I’d ever move back to that ****hole. Screw the overtime.
When I was hired 31 years ago Delta didn’t have a JS policy and actively discouraged commuting. Every other airline allowed JS, but few would give us a seat since we could not reciprocate. When we finally got JS I remember hearing a good number of pilots actually complain about it as they didn’t want to share their cockpits with pilots that “chose to not live in base”. We’ve still got that sort here apparently, can’t stand to see someone else get a good deal.
I think PSC will return in some form. It will be another carrot for a dwindling supply of pilots. High interest rates, and 2 income families make moving a lot harder. Often the spouse is the primary breadwinner. But Delta won’t be the first to make it contractual. This company is reactive, not proactive.
Oh and I’d drive the 4:15 to ATL before I’d ever move back to that ****hole. Screw the overtime.
.......... But I grew up here so I suppose i'm just used to it..... From the east side of town im 20-25 minutes tops to camp creek even on a heavy traffic day.
11-07-2022 | 04:35 AM
#186
Line Holder
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 860
Likes: 64
From: 717a
Grew up there too. Family moved to ATL when I was 14. Wife worked for a company that makes caramel colored sugar water. She retired in 2016, daughter was out of the house and asked ourselves why are we still in ATL? Neither of us could come up with a good reason.
11-07-2022 | 05:06 AM
#187
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,253
Likes: 96
From: DAL 330
I haven’t seen signs that Delta believes it must do anything to attract the best talent…nor that it actually values or rewards talent.
I’m not even being facetious; am I missing anything in the public messaging, compensation package, or company policies that leads others to believe otherwise? Are my years of service here an anomaly?
I’m not even being facetious; am I missing anything in the public messaging, compensation package, or company policies that leads others to believe otherwise? Are my years of service here an anomaly?
The above is a very important statement. And it is true...........................for now. DAL will not "sweeten the pot" so to speak unless it has to, and it probably will. Two main factors play out here - the market for Pilots is getting tighter and the younger Pilots seem much more aggressive in demanding better QOL items, thank you young Pilots! I see this in my daughters the younger generation is very aggressive in demanding more - good for them.
DAL will not make any of these moves until it feel it needs to. Just look at how long it took to raise the pay at Endeavor. IIRC it was pretty much the last commuter to raise the pay and was a defensive response to changes in the industry.
Predictions are hard to make, especially about the future (Props to Yogi
) but I will predict DAL will eventually be forced to make positive changes for QOL/Commuting etc if it want to remain as one of the airlines of choice for new hires. FDX, UAL etc are becoming much more attractive to new hires and it will take time but hopefully DAL will grudgingly respond and adapt to changing market dynamics. Also these things change at a glacial pace so it may take a while.Scoop - My 2 cents worth
11-07-2022 | 05:18 AM
#188
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,042
Likes: 195
And before you talk about no taxes, look at insurance rates and property taxes. Not everything is greener on the other side.
11-07-2022 | 05:32 AM
#190
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,248
Likes: 707
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
Small bases in both TX and FL would be huge from a recruiting and retention standpoint. Both are desirable places to live for many and are experiencing rapid growth.
DFW is currently on pace to surpass Chicago to become the 3rd largest metro area in the U.S., putting it behind only NYC and Los Angeles. AUS saw 33% growth in the past decade. The idea that Delta can’t make money in TX or FL is insane.
DFW is currently on pace to surpass Chicago to become the 3rd largest metro area in the U.S., putting it behind only NYC and Los Angeles. AUS saw 33% growth in the past decade. The idea that Delta can’t make money in TX or FL is insane.
but its been there for 10 years. We are always making excuses to do BOS "in the near future." BOS has become synonymous with the 787 at Delta.
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