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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 3715398)
That's the problem with you noobs. James actually had some good nuggets of info in there subtlety explained. Yes some of what he wrote was way out there, but you totally missed his main point. Again it's subtle and in the undertones of his post (PM him, he'll answer you and be a little more open). Have to be careful here as he is a public figure and he has to be mindful of some of this boomeranging back. He posts some very truthful stuff. You noobs just don't want to listen to it. And that is a problem we have within this pilot group right now. This is not Sky West, Endeavor, PSA, Mesa or Air Whiskey. This is Delta Air Lines. You would best be served to maybe open your aperture and listen and read and ask question to us folks who've been around this place just a bit longer than you have. I and many of my counter parts do listen to what you noobs have to say. I've gottne some good ideas from some of you. You bring in new ideas and youth. All good for this group. I've always offered some stuff crossing the pond(s). Some of you listen, many of you do not. So to tell us we need to educate you, like someone posted elsewhere, well we are trying. You all are a tough lot though. Hard to break through the armor of the smart watch ear buds and your instagram. Here's Where I start my education of you. Go back and read (or re-read) Flying the Line Vol 1&2. Then read Fate is the Hunter. Then go read about how Icahn and the rest of his ilk gutted out this industry for their own personal profit. Now, when done with that, let's chat. I'd be happy to pass on what I've seen and learned here over the decades.
A contract is only worth what you negotate and what can be won in arbitration. The company is puling the hard line now, they were always going to flight the new contract every company does, it’s nothing new. Not sure why you need to belittle your lesser/noob pilots. Sure telling it how it is I can agree with but disregarding some of our experiences because they are not your own is niave. The sooner you realize every pilot votes for what's best for them then sooner you realize alpa is a professional organization with "lobby" power, the sooner you can rest easy. |
Originally Posted by Scoop
(Post 3715422)
I also foolishly and naively trusted what DALPA recommended and voted for LOA 46 - you know to keep us out of BK. When we promptly sailed right into BK at 32% lower rates I learned my lesson. DALPA recommended LOA 51 in which we as a Pilot group said we would not fight the BK termination and you know what, the Delta Pilots voted for it. When 100% of us Pilots had a DB we did not fight it. I voted No, the only time ever I voted in the minority, because I was still upset with being played on LOA 46 and also becasue I knew we would never ever get a DB back.
So although I think the current contract slants in favor of the junior demographic I don't feel we can blame junior Pilots for not fighting for the retirement pillar since we didn't fight for ourselves - when every single Pilot on the property had a DB. Other than throw cash at guys on the way out the door (slim chance) and short of a DB coming back (never going to happen) what really could we have done? Maybe a bridge medical plan? 18% 401K at signing? <--- THIS I personally would have liked to have seen a 6th week of vacation vs faster accrual. This would have benefited the more senior guys and the junior guys would also benefit from it. The time to have fought for the pension was LOA 51 and we folded like a cheap suit. I just don't know what guys were realistically expecting with that pillar. I don't really expect much from DALPA. I submitted an ACE in May and they got back to me yesterday and asked when I called the company to stop my 120 day clock. WTF? Wait over 120 days to tell me I have a 120 day clock - DALPA in a nutshell. Pathetic. Scoop You are right. We should have voted to retain the pension when OUR MEC LIED to us way back when. But we didn't. And in a way, we fell for it again as well by listening to them talk of a 4th pillar. This MEC is as politically calculating as any I've seen in my 32 years here. It's reprehensible. CBreezy doesn't want to listen to the experience. Fine. He will learn it the hard way, just like I did and it will also take him 30 years to do so.. Hopefully enough others will listen and at least consider some of the things I posted and overrule his koolaid infused voting block. Or they can hand Darren Hartmann the throne in DC just like they did with Ambrosi. And Hartmann was the guy that UNILATERALLY gave a concession to the company. You just can't make this up. |
Originally Posted by CBreezy
(Post 3715356)
I didn't read your whole rant because it just was a rambling mess. That and because your entire premise is backwards. In fact, I'm sure you adamantly support BK and loathe the C44 reps. And the ironic part about that is even in my short tenure, there has been a complete turnover of that council 3 or 4 times. When was BK first elected?
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Originally Posted by cencal83406
(Post 3715437)
You have had many many months of communications that you need to contact the company. That L is firmly on you my friend.
Also should be pointed out that you’re just another pilot who doesn’t read the PWA. 18.B. But the fact that they respond after 120 days and then tell me about a 120 day clock is pretty lame. Scoop |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3715361)
As someone with 25+ years left, I can say that disregarding the 4th pillar is not a future mistake by junior. I fully expect all that money to be stolen by the .gov, the math makes that a certainty.
It is interesting that you believe the .gov will steal your money. I don't disagree either as I know they are probably drooling at all the ROTH IRA money out there and those multimillion dollar 401(k)s that you will have. So you should be asking yourself the same question I asked myself years ago when ALPA gave away our pensions; 'How do you protect yourself?" Fortunately, my wife was far smarter than I was because as a newhire and the DB was presented, she said the whole thing looked like a house of cards way back then. So we structured our lives based on the fact that it was a fantasy. Thank God for her wisdom beyond her years. But now you have the 401k. That beautiful little sliver in the tax code that allows you to squirrel away a little tax deferred monies. Nah. They could never take that away, could they? You are wise sir. They will come for it. Someday. Guaranteed. But what disregarding the 4th pillar was, was a giant **** you to those of us that gave you profit sharing and the 401k. Thanks for that. |
Originally Posted by JamesBond
(Post 3715452)
But what disregarding the 4th pillar was, was a giant **** you to those of us that gave you profit sharing and the 401k. Thanks for that.
Just so I can extrapolate from what you’re saying…can I tell noobs that I gave them that stuff 10 or 20 years down the road? Personally I wouldn’t have thought to claim credit for a contract but you guys seem to do that a lot. What am I missing? Were you a negotiator? Consultant? Rep? |
Originally Posted by JamesBond
(Post 3715452)
It wasn't essential that the 4th pillar was a return to DB. As I have said many times, I didn't want that either... it wasn't my personal goal. The MBCBP was a good step, but it took for-damned-ever to implement. The increase to the DC was a good thing, but again, why so long to implement? That didn't benefit but a very few of those that needed it. So thank you very little MEC.
It is interesting that you believe the .gov will steal your money. I don't disagree either as I know they are probably drooling at all the ROTH IRA money out there and those multimillion dollar 401(k)s that you will have. So you should be asking yourself the same question I asked myself years ago when ALPA gave away our pensions; 'How do you protect yourself?" Fortunately, my wife was far smarter than I was because as a newhire and the DB was presented, she said the whole thing looked like a house of cards way back then. So we structured our lives based on the fact that it was a fantasy. Thank God for her wisdom beyond her years. But now you have the 401k. That beautiful little sliver in the tax code that allows you to squirrel away a little tax deferred monies. Nah. They could never take that away, could they? You are wise sir. They will come for it. Someday. Guaranteed. But what disregarding the 4th pillar was, was a giant **** you to those of us that gave you profit sharing and the 401k. Thanks for that. |
Originally Posted by JamesBond
(Post 3715452)
It wasn't essential that the 4th pillar was a return to DB. As I have said many times, I didn't want that either... it wasn't my personal goal. The MBCBP was a good step, but it took for-damned-ever to implement. The increase to the DC was a good thing, but again, why so long to implement? That didn't benefit but a very few of those that needed it. So thank you very little MEC.
It is interesting that you believe the .gov will steal your money. I don't disagree either as I know they are probably drooling at all the ROTH IRA money out there and those multimillion dollar 401(k)s that you will have. So you should be asking yourself the same question I asked myself years ago when ALPA gave away our pensions; 'How do you protect yourself?" Fortunately, my wife was far smarter than I was because as a newhire and the DB was presented, she said the whole thing looked like a house of cards way back then. So we structured our lives based on the fact that it was a fantasy. Thank God for her wisdom beyond her years. But now you have the 401k. That beautiful little sliver in the tax code that allows you to squirrel away a little tax deferred monies. Nah. They could never take that away, could they? You are wise sir. They will come for it. Someday. Guaranteed. But what disregarding the 4th pillar was, was a giant **** you to those of us that gave you profit sharing and the 401k. Thanks for that. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 3715421)
Well, you are. You are new here to this air line. That's a fact.
You call me a boomer, I could give a rats ass. Is what it is. |
Originally Posted by JamesBond
(Post 3715452)
It wasn't essential that the 4th pillar was a return to DB. As I have said many times, I didn't want that either... it wasn't my personal goal. The MBCBP was a good step, but it took for-damned-ever to implement. The increase to the DC was a good thing, but again, why so long to implement? That didn't benefit but a very few of those that needed it. So thank you very little MEC.
It is interesting that you believe the .gov will steal your money. I don't disagree either as I know they are probably drooling at all the ROTH IRA money out there and those multimillion dollar 401(k)s that you will have. So you should be asking yourself the same question I asked myself years ago when ALPA gave away our pensions; 'How do you protect yourself?" Fortunately, my wife was far smarter than I was because as a newhire and the DB was presented, she said the whole thing looked like a house of cards way back then. So we structured our lives based on the fact that it was a fantasy. Thank God for her wisdom beyond her years. But now you have the 401k. That beautiful little sliver in the tax code that allows you to squirrel away a little tax deferred monies. Nah. They could never take that away, could they? You are wise sir. They will come for it. Someday. Guaranteed. But what disregarding the 4th pillar was, was a giant **** you to those of us that gave you profit sharing and the 401k. Thanks for that. I just worry that you lose a lot of open ears by the combative nature of your posting. Sometimes it feels like you’re just looking for a fight. Im not specifically highlighting this post, it was just the last one you posted on this thread. Not that I’m some kind of pillar of wisdom, but I’ve realized that every single day I find myself “mad” about something, especially something beyond my control, I realize I’m just stealing a day from myself, from a pool of rapidly dwindling days that compose the remainder of my conscious existence. Is my family healthy? Are they also safe and happy? Do I get meaning what I do for a living? I realized that once these three things are fulfilled then “happiness” is entirely an internal function of the will (at least for me). All the ancillary annoyances in the day to day are just dust in my eyes that I realized I can just blink away. I get if this is just a fun side distraction on APC, but being mad all the time about how you were wronged in the past is not, in my opinion, worthy of your time as a big balling delta A350 captain. Your seat right now is literally the dream destination of the 1 million or so commercial airline pilots who are alive today! Perspective! anyways I enjoy reading your posts. But just don’t let ALPA or Delta take away from your happiness! |
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