DYW717B to NYC330B
01-08-2024, 05:34 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,191
Originally Posted by PilotBases
Fairly certain 717A is junior to 330B, so that shouldn’t be an issue at least.
01-08-2024, 06:52 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,459
NYC 330 B is a different experience than what you will have as DTW 330 B. You will fly places from NYC that you will never get to from DTW. The winter bid pack from NYC has more and better destinations than DTW gets in the summer. The NYC crews have a different mindset about international layovers. It's more about the adventure and less about the $$.
Are you making the move for money, time off or the work experience?
Are you making the move for money, time off or the work experience?
01-08-2024, 07:48 AM
#14
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,033
Originally Posted by NoDeskJob
Good stuff above.
but to clarify something someone said above about trying to OBWS…
if the trip reports in less than 18 hours, OBWS has priority over a Reserve being assigned the trip.
the only exception is if the in base reserve has in a YellowSlip to fly.
pwa 23.0
but to clarify something someone said above about trying to OBWS…
if the trip reports in less than 18 hours, OBWS has priority over a Reserve being assigned the trip.
the only exception is if the in base reserve has in a YellowSlip to fly.
pwa 23.0
01-08-2024, 07:59 AM
#15
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,555
Originally Posted by FangsF15
3. I know I'm spitting in the wind here, but I'll advocate the opposite viewpoint on what I'll call elective OOBWS. Just like you CAN use all your sick leave annually, but if you are not actually sick it's cheating and wrong. I know OOBWS is in the contract, so it's not 'illegal', but I personally have a distaste for the practice of intentionally bidding a category you do not intent to fly in, so you can (try to) fly entirely in a category you cannot hold. It's one thing for a new hire, or someone displaced, to OOBWS when the company has involuntarily put you in a tough situation, and you are just trying to lessen the suck until you can get out of it. It's something else to choose to game the system, and yes it's at the expense of fellow pilots. Especially when you don't even have the seniority to hold what you are otherwise trying to do in the first place. And FWIW, I'm not going to begrudge a commuter getting an occasional good deal. That's fine. Again, it's in the contract and legal, I just don't like making it your 'default' - and I wish ALPA would change the contract to limit OOBWS to 2 a month (or similar) to prevent the practice of entirely flying in a different category than your own. That will probably never happen, but still...
Oh I'm all for OOBWS moving well down the coverage ladder, and at a minimum, below in base GS. But until that happens, I don't have a problem with guys using the contract in their favor. I don't even care if guys bid another base then OOBWS their entire shedule, as they're forcing themselves into a crappier situation in hopes of making it work. If someone wants to play that game, goodluck to them. While I'll occasionally shake my first at the screen when I see an O take what might have been my reserve assignment saving GS, it's part the of the game and I move on lol. Also, I keep a pretty specific OOBWS request in for months I'm a line holder. It hasn't produced a solid DH out, and DH home trip quite yet, but the day is approcahing. But again, I'd be all about OOBGS moving down the ladder.
01-08-2024, 08:01 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by Airbrake
His advice was to...drop my sched in NYC and rebuild it with OOBWS in DTW.[size=33px]
What he suggested is *possible* sometmes, and you may get that sometimes, but I'd plan on that being a rarity and never as part of your justification for doing it.
If it were me, before I'd attempt that plan, I'd do one of:
1. Stay DTW717B, enjoy the rocket ride of seniority, and bid DTW330B when you can hold it. Keep your first upgrade ace up your sleeve in case you hate it you'll have an escape.
2. Bid DTW717A ASAP, enjoy the money, and by the time your freeze is over you'll be able to hold DTW330B or very close.[/size]
3. Bid DTW320B and enjoy the higher payrate, superior flight deck and longer legs while getting most of the "Airbusisms" out of the way. By the time your freeze is up, you should be able to hold DTW330B. You'll preserve your first upgrade escape as well.
Commuting is doable and thousands of pilots do it. A lot of it is mindset. However you will spend a LOT of time and effort (planning flights, loads, weather, accomodations, transportation, etc) doing it. Oh and whatever drive to work you currently have, you'll still have on top of all that.
If NYC was the only way to get to do it, that's one thing. But its not. Its just a way to do it a little sooner. So what? Is that worth possibly 2+ years of 4-8 hours or more of extra unpaid "work" on each end of every trip? You'll get it eventually anyway, so what's the rush? I get that "AE fever" is a thing and each one is a mini FOMO event, but all you have to do is nothing and that opportunity comes to you fairly soon anyway with no commute.
JMHO.
01-08-2024, 06:58 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Big ones
Posts: 708
Originally Posted by FangsF15
2. As already said, 80% should be able to get a line most months. the 330 is a 4-99-4 Category, so you will have 4 days of reserve minimum. It's a lot harder to manage reserve bocks in an international category (you can drop a PB in the middle if you have them, but generally you can't PD down to 1 or 2 days of reserve). So if on Reserve, generally expect to get either a 4- day trip or SC on Day 1. International SC's are used far less often than domestic, but as a commuter it doesn't really matter much since you have to commute anyway.
3. I know I'm spitting in the wind here, but I'll advocate the opposite viewpoint on what I'll call elective OOBWS. Just like you CAN use all your sick leave annually, but if you are not actually sick it's cheating and wrong. I know OOBWS is in the contract, so it's not 'illegal', but I personally have a distaste for the practice of intentionally bidding a category you do not intent to fly in, so you can (try to) fly entirely in a category you cannot hold. It's one thing for a new hire, or someone displaced, to OOBWS when the company has involuntarily put you in a tough situation, and you are just trying to lessen the suck until you can get out of it. It's something else to choose to game the system, and yes it's at the expense of fellow pilots. Especially when you don't even have the seniority to hold what you are otherwise trying to do in the first place. And FWIW, I'm not going to begrudge a commuter getting an occasional good deal. That's fine. Again, it's in the contract and legal, I just don't like making it your 'default' - and I wish ALPA would change the contract to limit OOBWS to 2 a month (or similar) to prevent the practice of entirely flying in a different category than your own. That will probably never happen, but still...
4. Low 70's% overall seniority sems to be where WB B is (pretty) consitently being awarded lately. There have been one or two flashes of something a little junior to that, but until we have more actual growth deliveries, that's probably as good a guess as anyone can make. Probably...
All that said, do what you want - no-one can actually do or say anything to you if you make that choice. As already stated, the wisest move would be to wait until you can hold 717A in DTW, to give you an 'out' if you find the circadian disruption or the commute unlivable. But if you do go for the 330, you'll almost certainly love it. It's like working for a differnt company. Best of luck.
3. I know I'm spitting in the wind here, but I'll advocate the opposite viewpoint on what I'll call elective OOBWS. Just like you CAN use all your sick leave annually, but if you are not actually sick it's cheating and wrong. I know OOBWS is in the contract, so it's not 'illegal', but I personally have a distaste for the practice of intentionally bidding a category you do not intent to fly in, so you can (try to) fly entirely in a category you cannot hold. It's one thing for a new hire, or someone displaced, to OOBWS when the company has involuntarily put you in a tough situation, and you are just trying to lessen the suck until you can get out of it. It's something else to choose to game the system, and yes it's at the expense of fellow pilots. Especially when you don't even have the seniority to hold what you are otherwise trying to do in the first place. And FWIW, I'm not going to begrudge a commuter getting an occasional good deal. That's fine. Again, it's in the contract and legal, I just don't like making it your 'default' - and I wish ALPA would change the contract to limit OOBWS to 2 a month (or similar) to prevent the practice of entirely flying in a different category than your own. That will probably never happen, but still...
4. Low 70's% overall seniority sems to be where WB B is (pretty) consitently being awarded lately. There have been one or two flashes of something a little junior to that, but until we have more actual growth deliveries, that's probably as good a guess as anyone can make. Probably...
All that said, do what you want - no-one can actually do or say anything to you if you make that choice. As already stated, the wisest move would be to wait until you can hold 717A in DTW, to give you an 'out' if you find the circadian disruption or the commute unlivable. But if you do go for the 330, you'll almost certainly love it. It's like working for a differnt company. Best of luck.
could we police ourselves with concepts like this?
01-08-2024, 07:01 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,987
Originally Posted by tripled
ring ring. Hi it’s your friendly neighborhood alpa pilot volunteer, we noticed you’ve flown 3 OOBWS this month, 3 last month, and 3 the month before, have you considered changing domiciles lately? It’s contractual so we support you but it may affect some of your fellow union brothers.
could we police ourselves with concepts like this?
could we police ourselves with concepts like this?
01-08-2024, 07:06 PM
#20
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,033
Originally Posted by tripled
ring ring. Hi it’s your friendly neighborhood alpa pilot volunteer, we noticed you’ve flown 3 OOBWS this month, 3 last month, and 3 the month before, have you considered changing domiciles lately? It’s contractual so we support you but it may affect some of your fellow union brothers.
could we police ourselves with concepts like this?
could we police ourselves with concepts like this?
