FangsF15

Im not saying this is the same thing, but…

Is flying a GS with pilots on furlough “in the contract”? Yes it is. Is it “frowned upon” (by many more pilots than OOBWS is)? Yes it is.

All I’m saying is there is a line some folks won’t cross, and others will. Where that line is will vary from issue to issue, pilot to pilot, and time to time. I’m not here to police anyone, only to make my case for why I don’t personally like pilots bidding a category they have zero intention to fly in. We don’t have V-files anymore, so leaving dollar bills with “special” messages on them isn’t a thing anymore (thankfully). And harassing phone calls should be ignored/reported to Pro Stans.

Again, I don’t begrudge anyone the occasional good deal. On this, or any other topic, I would rather convince you than compel you with shady/bully tactics (which are, in my best Monty Python voice, right out!). JMO.

TED74

Indeed it will. All those trips I dropped went to pilots who improved their own schedules by picking them up or by swapping into them.

Every pilot action has consequences good and bad when you consider reserves who want to fly, reserves who don’t want to fly, line holders who want to fly 100 hours and line holders who want to fly 50 (or zero).

Picking and choosing which parts of the contract you actually support vs which parts you begrudgingly support is a fool’s errand. Almost every single provision affects your fellow pilots in positive and negative ways. Extreme and uncommon cases like flying green with pilots on furlough merit discussion when the time is right, but this nonsense about pressure against OOBWS is a circular firing squad. Use your seniority how you see fit, and let your union brethren do the same. If you don’t like the levers we can pull, change them.

TED74

Please show me a way I can do something my seniority can’t hold. That sounds amazing!

And what part of this job ISN’T gaming the system? Something tells me most of us are trying to get paid as much as we can while working as little as possible. All’s fair in love and the PWA.

BlueSkies

I'm sometimes miffed when I see an OOBWS that 'took my GS' /s but it's in the PWA and until that changes I just shrug and move on. If a pilot wants to go to all that trouble that's their choice.

FangsF15

YOU may be at a seniority where you could "hold it". But perhaps, for some lurkers...

The way "you" (or, at least some pilots) can "do something they cannot hold" is when they bid, for example, NYC XXX which they CAN hold, but drop thier entire schedule via "legit" means (like next day/worse coverage) and pickup entirely OOBWS in a category for which they do not otherwise have the senilrity to even be in. Or, they cannot hold a line in, say ATL or MSP, but they can in NYC. THAT is not what our seniority system is meant to allow, by end-arouding that system. Or, frankly, even pilots who are 30-40% more senior in NYC, but fly all thier trips in another domicile, be it for ease of dropping the schedule, or for better vacation bidding, or... IMO, that's beyond the intent of the PWA.

So the issue with OOBWS (to me) isn't dropping your schedule. Lineholders 'in category' do this all the time to improve thier schedule to WS broken trips. No issue with that. (though you won't ever convince me that it doesn't eventually cause Reserves to fly more - I know, I know. "That's what they are for...") becaue it's in your own category. Commuters who OOBWS from multiple domiciles, on occasion because it's a good deal DDH? Sure. Or, like I said from the start, NH"s who get assigned a category with a cross country commute. Zero isssue with NH's just surviving that first seat lock. The issue with some OOBWSing to me is, once again, bidding a category you have zero intention of flying in. They are 100% out there. If you want to fly primarily in one category, you should bid it. It can be abused to abrogate seniority. And I would support a PWA change to limit/make more difficult that practice.

I've made my case that I don't like it, but I don't want to be one of those posters who keeps bantering on and on until the equine carcass looks like a dragged roadkill. So if you still don't agree, we can just agree to disagree. We can still be friends.

hockeypilot44

I don’t see a problem with it. The PWA allows it. If they want to risk it. That’s fine. I do have a problem with someone who does that and uses ALPA work to drop their trips, then OOBWS’s. To me that’s taking advantage of your fellow pilots.

Gunfighter

Those trips may push the reserve coverage from blue to black, thereby denying pilots in your BES the opportunity for drops, swaps or moving X days. It could create another flying obligation for a reserve pilot who otherwise would have been home. Since this practice is typically promoted by/for junior pilots in BES too junior to hold (desirable) BES the trips being dropped are the junior trips, not the good trips. You aren't helping pilots improve their schedules, you are dumping crap trips onto reserve pilots.

The one point we can all agree on is that an OOBWS reduces the aggregate value of the PWA by flying for lower wages.

fishforfun

Bingo. I’ve never even flown an OOBWS but could you tell them to F off for me too?

notEnuf

You said absolutely nothing there. Say again.

fishforfun

You said it was cheating and wrong. You compared a negotiated benefit in our PWA to using sick time when not sick. Your opinion is just that. If you have a problem with it, keep it to your self, your union reps, or internet forums. Keep that crap out of the flight deck. Guess what, I think flying GS with guys on furlough and negotiations are wrong. But I sure as hell wouldn’t start out a trip voicing that to the guy next to me that is exercising his contractual rights. You’re not educating anyone by doing it. You’re just creating a barrier with someone you need to work with for however many days.