Rerouted to extra day, conflicts w/next rot
01-31-2024, 08:52 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
I keep hearing this, but if that's the case then the SRH should go to memrat. How can it take priority over the PWA?
01-31-2024, 08:59 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by neodd
I ACE’d it a few months ago. Scheduling committee just got to it and… agreed with the company that personal IROPS caused by the company can obligate a pilot to 23.K. WTF?
How do I escalate this further?
How do I escalate this further?
01-31-2024, 09:14 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by neodd
It's a good read but I dont see where any of that is supported in the actual PWA.
As far as I know, the only language involving IROPS that will result in a rotation being dropped with no recovery obligation are the exceptions found at the end of 23.k.1.g (FAR 60-in-168 conflict and cancellation or equipment sub that ocucrs prior to PBS bidding or addition to a pilot's line via PCS and/or the coverage ladders (i.e. PW, WS, PSB, etc.).
Last edited by charleyvarrick; 01-31-2024 at 09:34 AM.
01-31-2024, 09:44 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 891
I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Your situation is specifically covered by PWA 4.F.1. and 23.K. Its also addressed in the SRH with more restrictive language limiting you to only being deadheaded to catch up to your original rotation when its a rest issue. It's common practice to do this, and its happened to me multiple times.
Yes, there is a procedure for filing a grievance on your own. Your local rep, or contract administration can help you. However, in this situation you would just be wasting your time, and the time of ALPA and the CPO. Its established in language and practice that what happened to you was contractual, and ALPA has already agreed with the company through ACE.
Yes, there is a procedure for filing a grievance on your own. Your local rep, or contract administration can help you. However, in this situation you would just be wasting your time, and the time of ALPA and the CPO. Its established in language and practice that what happened to you was contractual, and ALPA has already agreed with the company through ACE.
01-31-2024, 09:45 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,117
Originally Posted by neodd
Rejoining when it comes through base is different though. I agree, they can do that. That's 23.G.2. My trip never came back through base. They added a segment to my previously awarded trip.
01-31-2024, 09:48 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
I keep hearing this, but if that's the case then the SRH should go to memrat. How can it take priority over the PWA?
01-31-2024, 10:06 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,205
Originally Posted by neodd
Leading question: What do you think is supposed to happen when you get rerouted into an extra day that conflicts with your next rotation (line holder)?
I’ve asked several other people about this and I always get the same answer: next rotation is dropped and pay protected.
I had this happen to me a few months ago and my next rotation wasn’t dropped. Instead, scheduling/tracking/who-knows removed the first day of the rotation and then ADDED a segment (DH) on the 2nd day of the rotation (my new first day) to catch me up to it.
I had a long discussion with the scheduling supervisor about it at the time. At first they claimed 23.G.2 says the company may remove a pilot from a rotation or portion of a rotation. But that didn’t explain the added segment which I argued is either a reroute or recovery. Then he claimed that my lack of required rest for the rotation was an IROP so they could add the segment under 23.K recovery. My lack of rest… because they rerouted me… There were no IROPS on either of my rotations prior to the reroute.
I ACE’d it a few months ago. Scheduling committee just got to it and… agreed with the company that personal IROPS caused by the company can obligate a pilot to 23.K. WTF?
How do I escalate this further?
At the time of the event, I called the scheduling committee volunteer who agreed with me, who called someone from the actual scheduling committee, who also agreed with me, but ultimately told me to fly now and grieve later. So imagine my surprise when ACE comes back with nothing-to-see-here.
Under this interpretation, the company has free reign to subject (line-holder) pilots to any flying because of “IROPS” that the company caused by reroutes.
I’ve asked several other people about this and I always get the same answer: next rotation is dropped and pay protected.
I had this happen to me a few months ago and my next rotation wasn’t dropped. Instead, scheduling/tracking/who-knows removed the first day of the rotation and then ADDED a segment (DH) on the 2nd day of the rotation (my new first day) to catch me up to it.
I had a long discussion with the scheduling supervisor about it at the time. At first they claimed 23.G.2 says the company may remove a pilot from a rotation or portion of a rotation. But that didn’t explain the added segment which I argued is either a reroute or recovery. Then he claimed that my lack of required rest for the rotation was an IROP so they could add the segment under 23.K recovery. My lack of rest… because they rerouted me… There were no IROPS on either of my rotations prior to the reroute.
I ACE’d it a few months ago. Scheduling committee just got to it and… agreed with the company that personal IROPS caused by the company can obligate a pilot to 23.K. WTF?
How do I escalate this further?
At the time of the event, I called the scheduling committee volunteer who agreed with me, who called someone from the actual scheduling committee, who also agreed with me, but ultimately told me to fly now and grieve later. So imagine my surprise when ACE comes back with nothing-to-see-here.
Under this interpretation, the company has free reign to subject (line-holder) pilots to any flying because of “IROPS” that the company caused by reroutes.
An Irop is anytime your rotation is disrupted for things not in our control. So 23k for the second rotation sounds about right. Now,,,if they would’ve altered it again a second time and there’s no WX waiver, then it’s an illegal reroute (double 23k).
In your case, you were DH to join your original (2nd) rotation. You’re legal for it, you’re wasting your time. You get extra money for the reroute in the first rotation. Second rotation “reroute” is legal.
happened to me a bunch of times.
01-31-2024, 02:58 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,232
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
Its not reroute for the second rotation, because you’re New Day is later than the original sign in.
An Irop is anytime your rotation is disrupted for things not in our control. So 23k for the second rotation sounds about right. Now,,,if they would’ve altered it again a second time and there’s no WX waiver, then it’s an illegal reroute (double 23k).
In your case, you were DH to join your original (2nd) rotation. You’re legal for it, you’re wasting your time. You get extra money for the reroute in the first rotation. Second rotation “reroute” is legal.
happened to me a bunch of times.
An Irop is anytime your rotation is disrupted for things not in our control. So 23k for the second rotation sounds about right. Now,,,if they would’ve altered it again a second time and there’s no WX waiver, then it’s an illegal reroute (double 23k).
In your case, you were DH to join your original (2nd) rotation. You’re legal for it, you’re wasting your time. You get extra money for the reroute in the first rotation. Second rotation “reroute” is legal.
happened to me a bunch of times.
To mister stache. yes we have the list as you pointed out, but the company can also "IROP" whenever they so decide. That is the issue. Needs to be some guardrails there.
01-31-2024, 03:04 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 717a
Posts: 638
It all sounds very "fatiguing" to me.
Different set of circumstances, but I submitted an ACE report last May. Union says it was definitely a PWA violation. Company simply hasn't responded.
ACE guy told me to call my rep and report it to CPO in preperation for a grievance.
So an unfavorable ruling by ACE isn't necessarily the end of the road.
Different set of circumstances, but I submitted an ACE report last May. Union says it was definitely a PWA violation. Company simply hasn't responded.
ACE guy told me to call my rep and report it to CPO in preperation for a grievance.
So an unfavorable ruling by ACE isn't necessarily the end of the road.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
