Had a CA point out a fuel situation to me I’d never thought of, but now I do the math every time…

the company is only required to protect something like 10% for the c fuel (bad memory and no book in front of me so I’m open to the flogging)… well we were leaving a busy socal airport once and had to sit in the conga line to depart like 45 min… turns out if you just look at the landing fuel… you can be f’d… so my new FO technique is to take the min fuel for takeoff and subtract the trip fuel… this usually leads to a much smaller number than the flight plan landing fuel… so with that in mind, if that number is uncomfortably lower than 6.0 (weather/notams factored in) ask for more fuel or more protected C fuel.

I’m probably wrong. Never upgraded anywhere so never had to make the tough calls…

 

No we weren't. The question was, "What is the minimum fuel you would feel comfortable landing with." A VFR with no alternate needs to be planned with 6.2 on the 737 (45min reserve+25 min of contingency). The instructor was trying to say you should never land below 6.0. There are plenty of scenarios where landing with less than 70 minutes of fuel is fine.


And all the quotes you listed are in agreement with what I'm saying.

Planning is fine. The instructor was trying to use the planning number as the actual minimum number.

Exactly. The instructor was focused on the "planning" number and I am talking about the part in the air where you would re-evaluate.

This is a strange one because the person is saying the book value (4.0) is higher than their comfort level.

This person is incorrect since your reserve fuel is based on 1,500 feet AGL. So the scenario they are describing would only happen if you are already below the minimum value of 4.0.

And this is the conversation I am having. Why wait until you are holding? Why not discuss what you would do if you are holding at the FAF with 6.5? Will you really divert since the instructor said not to land with less than 6.0?

My position is each flight and situation needs to be evaluated. 6.0 does not work for every situation. And rather than think about a specific number, think about time. How much time do I want for a backup plan, and where do I need that time? That will affect how much extra fuel I need.

 

I look at the required and discretionary contingency fuel. Sometimes, even when it says "closest alternate is x, min cont fuel is 45 minutes" they only give you 25 minutes of required and 20 minutes of discretionary. I just add the discretionary into my min fuel. But I shouldn't have to do that.

 

Well yeah, because planned landing fuel on the release is block fuel minus expected taxi fuel minus burn. So of course it's gonna go down if your taxi burns more than the flight plan says.

 

Dunno man- planned landing is ideal… but it includes non-protected C fuel. So…

 

Not sure this is a great eval. I flew PIC for Delta passengers with 3 years in a jet. You may have deadheaded on my first flight off OE, some poor Delta crew did from IIU to CVG. It was in a 50 seat jet so I'm sure that doesn't count. Meanwhile, a friend's kid 22 is flying a Phenom with the business owner worth $100M plus. It's about the training and preparation. We all did it for the first time once.

 

PDX to SEA LOE the dispatchers are A$$#0!3$. No, you can't have any extra gas. Payload optimized or some other BS.

 

That’s a problematic statement. The dispatcher isn’t the final authority, you are. If they continue to push back, get their supervisor on the line, and file an ASAP/FSAP. If you want the gas, get the gas. Period. If it means losing a little revenue, so be it.

 

They also file you via NYC.

 

He was talking about the LOE scenario