Another look at the look back.
03-01-2026 | 10:13 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,584
Likes: 239
From: UNA
In whose eyes, the CPO’s / RD’s? There’s a reason why most of their termination attempts ultimately fail in arbitration.
It is entirely possible for a commuter to get into position for SC without leaving any trace that Delta can see. Not all commuters are full-time commuters either.
Again, I’m not defending anyone who shirks their SC responsibilities. But there is nothing in our contract requiring any pilot to “prove” that they were in position for SC — especially after the fact.
It is entirely possible for a commuter to get into position for SC without leaving any trace that Delta can see. Not all commuters are full-time commuters either.
Again, I’m not defending anyone who shirks their SC responsibilities. But there is nothing in our contract requiring any pilot to “prove” that they were in position for SC — especially after the fact.
I’m not saying there cannot be an explanation, just that if you don’t have a good one, the evidence I mentioned before will likely be enough for an arbitrator to rule against you.
03-01-2026 | 10:18 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 2,314
Likes: 1,254
in the eyes of an arbitrator, the only opinion that really matters. If you leave specific evidence when you normally commute to work and all that evidence is absent for a bunch of short calls, and you happen to call in sick for every SC that lacked that evidence only when assigned a trip, you cannot tell me an arbitrator won’t see that as evidence you didn’t go to work.
03-01-2026 | 10:20 AM
#83
Roll’n Thunder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,185
Likes: 608
From: Pilot
In the case of the 747 pilots? Because the company went straight to termination without first going through the regular steps of discipline, like letters of warning and such. The ruling wasn't really about the merits of the company's position that the pilots were not properly sitting SC.
03-01-2026 | 10:22 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,584
Likes: 239
From: UNA
2) my understanding was it was a technicality that for 3 of the 4 it was first time being caught, that’s why 3 got their job back.
3) the company successfully terminated 1 of them
4) they likley did not make the same mistake again and had significant documentation for this termination.
it’s also worth noting that the company has had a few very favorable awards from arbitration since that happened. I certainly wouldn’t bet my career on an arbitrator looking at a pile of evidence that I routinely missed work and deciding that wasn’t good enough to fire me.
03-01-2026 | 10:26 AM
#85
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Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 2,314
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Exactly. And they did so, in part, by claiming that a lack of evidence of past commutes served as adequate proof that they were never in position for past unused SCs. The company’s claim was that they were already “repeat offenders”, based on evidence that didn’t exist.
03-01-2026 | 01:38 PM
#86
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,364
Likes: 1,392
In the case of the 747 pilots? Because the company went straight to termination without first going through the regular steps of discipline, like letters of warning and such. The ruling wasn't really about the merits of the company's position that the pilots were not properly sitting SC.
The fourth pilot reportedly already had a bunch of other episodes, and the company won that case, and their termination was upheld.
Last edited by FangsF15; 03-01-2026 at 01:51 PM.
03-01-2026 | 03:02 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 77
Sure it's possible, and probably happens with some regularity over the whole company, but it would involve either buying full fare tickets on other airlines, or using someone else's other airline nonrev benefits, and never using KCM in either case. I doubt there is any domestic commuter at this company who does that regularly themselves.
Delta could track the commuting activity of most (air) commuters here very well. Whether it's enough to make a firing stick or not, maybe we're about to find out. I wouldn't bet my career on it though.
Delta could track the commuting activity of most (air) commuters here very well. Whether it's enough to make a firing stick or not, maybe we're about to find out. I wouldn't bet my career on it though.
03-01-2026 | 03:23 PM
#88
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 200
Likes: 33
From: 767
Going into the Camp Creek Parking lot, being present in the pilot lounge, a hotel room, a receipt for food or even a cup of coffee, you name it. But I think it very unlikely a pilot being in Atlanta for a short call period would leave no trail of their presence.
Last edited by Rinaldi; 03-01-2026 at 03:47 PM.
03-01-2026 | 04:51 PM
#89
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Joined: Jul 2023
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Likes: 309
03-01-2026 | 04:58 PM
#90
.
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,536
Likes: 708
I would think if a pilot had actually come to Atlanta to sit short call, they could prove it in ways beyond KCM or non-rev listings.
Going into the Camp Creek Parking lot, being present in the pilot lounge, a hotel room, a receipt for food or even a cup of coffee, you name it. But I think it very unlikely a pilot being in Atlanta for a short call period would leave no trail of their presence.
Going into the Camp Creek Parking lot, being present in the pilot lounge, a hotel room, a receipt for food or even a cup of coffee, you name it. But I think it very unlikely a pilot being in Atlanta for a short call period would leave no trail of their presence.
I could be sitting SC up in my family hunting camp in the Adirondack Mountains instead of my house. How long should I hold proof I wasn't?
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