Schedule Quality Decreasing
04-05-2026 | 04:20 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,548
Likes: 1,158
Yeah, I'm in the camp that would like to see proof. At this point the notion that the optimizer will just make everything worse is too close to 'received wisdom' for me. Let's see their work.
Precisely.
So you're saying it is available? If so, fair enough. I'll do my homework.
Yes.
Here's why I don't buy this argument: if they could eliminate credit from all these rotations by adding more flying, they would. That they don't (or aren't) demonstrates the counterpoint others are raising. I mean why not just add a penalty lap to the front or back end of every rotation with 2-3 hours of credit right now? There is some reason they can't, otherwise it would be happening.
Precisely.
So you're saying it is available? If so, fair enough. I'll do my homework.
Yes.
Here's why I don't buy this argument: if they could eliminate credit from all these rotations by adding more flying, they would. That they don't (or aren't) demonstrates the counterpoint others are raising. I mean why not just add a penalty lap to the front or back end of every rotation with 2-3 hours of credit right now? There is some reason they can't, otherwise it would be happening.
And "they" don't do anything. A computer program does. If it doesn't need to add those turns to eliminate credit on trips, it won't. But CARMEN will do whatever it can to optimize with a 6 hour ADG and the results, historically when it has been tested have resulted in very negative outcomes.
04-05-2026 | 05:05 PM
#82
On Reserve
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 15
Likes: 3
Delta’s own wholly owned regional carrier has a commuter policy superior to mainline.
https://youtu.be/9I0wyHuTrwM?si=r75vLaE59JlcsZu8
https://youtu.be/9I0wyHuTrwM?si=r75vLaE59JlcsZu8
04-05-2026 | 07:36 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,548
Likes: 1,158
04-05-2026 | 07:57 PM
#86
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 207
Likes: 103
still don’t know how we keep track of the rolling 12-month average. I have a feeling the fatigue call trends are going to continue upward. Reserve life is already out of hand.
04-05-2026 | 08:12 PM
#87
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 29
Likes: 3
04-05-2026 | 08:33 PM
#88
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 17
Likes: 16
I've chatted with some pilots who wanted to push for higher ADG in the next contract. Just realize if this is what you're asking for, it's not "free money", the company will keep optimizing trips into higher block so we're not really benefiting, just working harder. Ask some of the older guys how some of the 1 leg duty days were before ADG was a thing. IMO it will always be better to have a pick of how efficient you want your trips rather than force everyone into optimized garbage. We're seeing some of this now.
For instance with an ADG…. Let’s says there’s an easy two day trip that has both days below the ADG it incentivizes the company can add a really long third day to the front or back of the rotation which then makes the trip average out to be close
to ADG. Thus reducing our QOL.
With a min daily guarantee the company can add that long third day, but they have to pay you for it above min guarantee and they would have to pay you min guarantee on the easy days. With that said I’m not sure how many trips in the bid packets would pay more with the change.
I was told that SkyWest’s contract pays a minimum daily guarantee fwiw.
open to feed back… thoughts.
Last edited by Nono; 04-05-2026 at 08:51 PM.
04-06-2026 | 03:45 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,548
Likes: 1,158
We might want to try for a minimum daily guarantee vs an average daily guarantee.
For instance with an ADG…. Let’s says there’s an easy two day trip that has both days below the ADG it incentivizes the company can add a really long third day to the front or back of the rotation which then makes the trip average out to be close
to ADG. Thus reducing our QOL.
With a min daily guarantee the company can add that long third day, but they have to pay you for it above min guarantee and they would have to pay you min guarantee on the easy days. With that said I’m not sure how many trips in the bid packets would pay more with the change.
I was told that SkyWest’s contract pays a minimum daily guarantee fwiw.
open to feed back… thoughts.
For instance with an ADG…. Let’s says there’s an easy two day trip that has both days below the ADG it incentivizes the company can add a really long third day to the front or back of the rotation which then makes the trip average out to be close
to ADG. Thus reducing our QOL.
With a min daily guarantee the company can add that long third day, but they have to pay you for it above min guarantee and they would have to pay you min guarantee on the easy days. With that said I’m not sure how many trips in the bid packets would pay more with the change.
I was told that SkyWest’s contract pays a minimum daily guarantee fwiw.
open to feed back… thoughts.
04-06-2026 | 03:50 AM
#90
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 191
Likes: 109
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
