Thanks for sharing. I just have to remember your point of view is a little off from the mainstream:

Despite what you post above, scope is significantly tightened in this agreement. From JV to Alaska to DCI, there are more restrictions placed on how DL can use its code without Delta pilots at the controls, and this TA accelerates the transition of flying to the mainline.

The profit sharing conversion removes some risk from the table. In May of 2001 we were arguing over C2K (which some on this board voted against and now they're clamoring for restoration to, go figure). Less than 6 months later the first 400 of 1310 furloughs happened. 1060 of our pilots did not see one dime of benefit from that contract. If pre-tax income in 2013 is identical to last year pilots will see a $28 million reduction in profit sharing. Instead they'll receive about $260 million more in pay. If Iran attacks Israel, if Europe melts down, or if there's something that takes our profitability down pilots have pocketed an additional $40+ million in pay. If we are wildly profitable we still get 20% of the PTIX above $2.5 billion.

I think I'm going to modify my signature line for awhile..thanks for this, Scambo.

Quit the spin machine. Show us one post where anyone mentions a no vote being risk free. The risk of a new contract taking 3 years is low, however. Stand up for yourself, son.

I see the reserves getting more. That's about 15% of the pilot group. I also see the overtime flying going away as the flying is covered by reserves (whether they want it or not). Probably more than 15% of the pilot group and by definition if someone gets a greenslip they wanted it.

Is this a cost savings for the company? And who decided to transfer that flying from the senior (generally) pilots in a category to the junior (generally)? Was reduce G/S flying a big survey item??

So here is a question for the MEC? Where is the costing for this agreement? Was the MEC shown the costing and are they mow sworn to secrecy?

Without costing I am inclined to believe that TA is cost neutral to DAL at best, and could be a cost savings agreement.

Finis is more than capable of taking care of himself (son comment...really?), but can you show me how you can assert the above?

Please go through each of the recent negotiations in our industry. Tell me about the timeline of the successful strike at Spirit which put them well below this TA. Or the effective tactics that produced a timely contract at APA, NPA, CAL, UAL, LCC, ASA/ExpressJet, PCL. How is SWAPA's negotiation going for their 9/30/12 amendable date? Any other examples?

Convince me with the facts...

Would you say that to my face ? I think not so quit with the manly BS from behind your keypad. I was stating that there is risk no matter how you vote and it has nothing to do with fear. I'm not surprised that you don't get that.

I really don't understand the debate on this TA. In 2015, the 7er will pay $216. In 2004, the 7er paid 267. So 11 years later, it will pay $51 less (or 19% less). 11 years later!

Did anyone think we would have any chance of meaningful restoration without a fight?

If we have any hope of truly restoring this profession, we will have to go to the mattresses. Period. (It definitely won't come from a 2 month, Neville Chamberlin, peace in our time, TA.

This not an LOA/MOU. This is our 1st section 6 since BK. I would hope our goal would be significant (i.e., large) gains in all areas of the contract.

I for one, am not ready to throw the towel in on this profession. I hope that the majority agrees.

The MEC was briefed on costing. Direct compensation is "hard" numbers. Much of the changes to Section 1 have very different costs in the eyes of management and ALPA (JV protections, code share restrictions, furlough protections) so are "soft" numbers. The manning changes created by this agreement are dependent on business plan execution so are "soft" numbers. All of that was briefed.

If Delta was going to save $1billion in RJ costs and put $1billion in your pocket instead how are you worse off?:confused:

As to "cost neutral"...again, this agreement takes money out of one of Delta's accounting silos and puts it into ours, a significant plus for pilots. Delta management has a very different target audience (we're less than 1/6 of the employee group) and a lot of interested parties in New York City and Washington, D.C. Note that Bastian was at a financial conference both the day after the TA was announced and the day after our TA was ratified by the MEC "explaining" it to investors.

Not that it really changes your point, but it's 226.21 in 2015.

You said "I do have a problem with people who say there is no risk in a no vote.". Who has said that? Fact is, no one. Or did you mis-speak?

You realize that in 2015 Delta pilots will be leading the industry (again) in pay rates? And can you explain why the three airlines that never went bankrupt and have been profitable throughout this period (FDX, UPS, SWA) never caught up to those 2004 rates of pay?

Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.

I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...:confused: