Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1198648)

During C2K we had 2 DC plans. The first was a MPPP that was held by the company and invested in our names. The contribution was 5% of pay and it offset the earned benefit of the DB plan upon retirement, non-qualified monies first, then qualified money. It was only in existance from 1996-2004 when it was hard frozen, then it was terminated an distributed to pilots as part of our bankruptcy agreement. Editorial, had this plan been in existance at the start of the DB, or had there been no lump sum provision in our DB we'd probably be participating in an ongoing plan rather than a terminated one...

The second DC plan was our 401K. C2K increased the company contribution from 2% to 3% of eligible salary, but the first (approximate, as it varied by member) $1500 was in company ESOP stock. That stock was valued at $72 per share and just before bankruptcy was converted to common at about 1.7-1. It was sold by the trustee for next to nothing, so all those company contributions were wiped out.

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1198651)

Answered yesterday in another thread, and you responded....:confused:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1198628)

You realize that in 2015 Delta pilots will be leading the industry (again) in pay rates? And can you explain why the three airlines that never went bankrupt and have been profitable throughout this period (FDX, UPS, SWA) never caught up to those 2004 rates of pay?

Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.

I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...:confused:

Originally Posted by LivingTheDream (Post 1198659)

You're right slow. Let's not even try to return the profession to were it was 8 years ago (11 years ago if this TA passes)...after all, we did go through a whole 2 months of negotiations. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by 1234 (Post 1198649)

I don't understand. What do you mean to offset the company plan? Are you saying that not only did you get a very nice pension, but you also had a large amount put into a DC? That was a sweet deal.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer (Post 1198437)

Some might say that about you as well. The only thing you look at starts with M and ends with O N E Y....meager as it might be on this proposal you will sell the farm for a few extra dollars. You dont give a shiz about anything else because it likely wont effect your position/airplane. Who cares about the other pilots in the group as long as you get YOURS right?!:mad:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1198116)

All right, scambo1. Here's your chance as this one can be determined with absolute certainty. Care to make a $100 wager that ATN pilots do NOT come with those 717s? Yes or No? I'll even give you 2-1 odds on this one.

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1198628)

You realize that in 2015 Delta pilots will be leading the industry (again) in pay rates? And can you explain why the three airlines that never went bankrupt and have been profitable throughout this period (FDX, UPS, SWA) never caught up to those 2004 rates of pay?

Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.

I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...:confused:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1198462)

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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

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Carl