During C2K we had 2 DC plans. The first was a MPPP that was held by the company and invested in our names. The contribution was 5% of pay and it offset the earned benefit of the DB plan upon retirement, non-qualified monies first, then qualified money. It was only in existance from 1996-2004 when it was hard frozen, then it was terminated an distributed to pilots as part of our bankruptcy agreement. Editorial, had this plan been in existance at the start of the DB, or had there been no lump sum provision in our DB we'd probably be participating in an ongoing plan rather than a terminated one...

The second DC plan was our 401K. C2K increased the company contribution from 2% to 3% of eligible salary, but the first (approximate, as it varied by member) $1500 was in company ESOP stock. That stock was valued at $72 per share and just before bankruptcy was converted to common at about 1.7-1. It was sold by the trustee for next to nothing, so all those company contributions were wiped out.

Thanks Slow for all the facts you present.

05-27-2012 | 07:40 AM

#101782

johnso29

Moderator

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 13,088

Likes: 0

From: B757/767

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

Answered yesterday in another thread, and you responded....

Did you? Man, it's time to go offline for a while.

Guess I'd better some post searching!

05-27-2012 | 07:43 AM

#101783

LivingTheDream

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jun 2007

Posts: 461

Likes: 0

From: 7ER Capt

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

You realize that in 2015 Delta pilots will be leading the industry (again) in pay rates? And can you explain why the three airlines that never went bankrupt and have been profitable throughout this period (FDX, UPS, SWA) never caught up to those 2004 rates of pay?

Oh, can you show me how those "fighting" unions have produced better results? Maybe an NWA guy can remind us how much of a pay rate increase they got after a 14 day lockout in 1998.

I'm all for a fight if it gets us better results. I'll follow just about any path that produces better results. But advocating for a path that hasn't produced any results...

You're right slow. Let's not even try to return the profession to were it was 8 years ago (11 years ago if this TA passes)...after all, we did go through a whole 2 months of negotiations.

05-27-2012 | 07:49 AM

#101784

1234

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2009

Posts: 782

Likes: 0

From: 717

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingTheDream

You're right slow. Let's not even try to return the profession to were it was 8 years ago (11 years ago if this TA passes)...after all, we did go through a whole 2 months of negotiations.

........................

05-27-2012 | 07:53 AM

#101785

LivingTheDream

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jun 2007

Posts: 461

Likes: 0

From: 7ER Capt

Three basic questions:

1. Is ALPA a representational entity?

2. Does this TA represent our survey results?

3. Will we see the survey results prior to the vote?

05-27-2012 | 08:10 AM

#101786

flyallnite

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Dec 2009

Posts: 1,898

Likes: 0

From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1234

I don't understand. What do you mean to offset the company plan? Are you saying that not only did you get a very nice pension, but you also had a large amount put into a DC? That was a sweet deal.

No, it was basically a way to get a percentage off the DB plan in our names by some fore thinking people who saw the risk of a DB plan that the company owned. Unfortunately, it was too little too late.

05-27-2012 | 08:19 AM

#101787

tsquare

No longer cares

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 12,109

Likes: 0

From: 767er Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

Some might say that about you as well. The only thing you look at starts with M and ends with O N E Y....meager as it might be on this proposal you will sell the farm for a few extra dollars. You dont give a shiz about anything else because it likely wont effect your position/airplane. Who cares about the other pilots in the group as long as you get YOURS right?!

And being one dimensional in your case would be a quantum leap forward. You have not a clue about my motivations.

05-27-2012 | 08:26 AM

#101788

tim123

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jan 2008

Posts: 333

Likes: 0

From: 320A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

All right, scambo1. Here's your chance as this one can be determined with absolute certainty. Care to make a $100 wager that ATN pilots do NOT come with those 717s? Yes or No? I'll even give you 2-1 odds on this one.

Isn't one of the points having a contract is that we shouldn't have to bet or get odds on what is in the agreement?

05-27-2012 | 08:32 AM

#101789

flyallnite

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Dec 2009

Posts: 1,898

Likes: 0

From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

That remains to be seen, 3 years is a long time, and all the majors, SWA, FedEx will have had ample time to exceed those rates. For now, we are making record profits following a successful merger which put us squarely in the lead among our contemporaries.

Personally I think the companies reaction will be vindictive, and we will be made out to be the Snidely Whiplashes of the company, but that's what it took to achieve c2k. I find the TA to be too concessionary to justify not taking that risk.

05-27-2012 | 08:37 AM

#101790

alfaromeo

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 1,619

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

-------------------------

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

-------------------------

Carl

"It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have don them better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms and devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat"

Winston Churchill