Carl Spackler

They're not misinformed and they didn't mishear. You're lying. As the reps are also saying, the MEC is too personally invested in this product to be able to describe it objectively (I say honestly).

Carl

Free Bird

Hey folks, don't get distracted and get into the FDAL vs. FNWA or Military vs. Civilian. We are all one despite our backgrounds. If we don't get this right, all of the contracts of the past will seem like the glory days. Let's get this profession moving forward, time to change the trend line.

Carl Spackler

Yes. They represent management. They're OK if members also get represented assuming members wishes align with management, but that's secondary. Look at how hard slowplay and alfaromeo are trying to get us to see this TA through the eyes of management. Look at how slowplay and alfaromeo says thngs like: 'this is as far management would go' and 'I promise you they will not move from this position if we vote NO.' I ask any objective participant, who does DALPA sound like they're representing?

We don't know. Some LEC reps are saying it clearly did not. The others are silent. No rep that I know of is saying that this TA met the will of the pilot group as stated by the survey. But since we won't get to see the survey...

Absolutely no chance. You're not even going to get to see the DCI contracts or any of that critical scope paperwork prior to the vote.

Carl

dragon

I know someone else mentioned this but from the Press Release.

Delta Continues New York Growth with Expanded Caribbean, Bermuda, Florida Service
Airline adds new and expanded flights to 10 popular destinations from LaGuardia, JFK

May 21, 2012

NEW YORK, May 21, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) today announced new and expanded service to 10 popular destinations in the Caribbean, Bermuda and Florida from LaGuardia Airport and John F. Kennedy International Airport, continuing its historic expansion in New York.

The new flights, which will begin in late 2012 and early 2013, are in addition to Delta's previously announced expansion at New York-LaGuardia, where the airline is adding more than 100 new flights to 26 new destinations this summer. When its full schedule is implemented, Delta will operate more than 260 daily flights between LaGuardia and more than 60 cities, exceeding any other carrier.

Delta also is optimizing its schedule at JFK to facilitate convenient connections to international flights. JFK is a major global gateway for Delta, which operates nonstop flights to more than 45 international destinations from the airport.

"We're excited to be announcing new and expanded service to these popular leisure destinations at the same time we're building our new domestic hub at LaGuardia Airport," said Gail Grimmett, Delta's senior vice president – New York. "It's another step toward achieving our goal of becoming the preferred airline in New York."

In conjunction with its expansion at LaGuardia, Delta is investing $160 million to modernize two terminals at the airport and construct a new walkway connecting the facilities. At JFK, Delta is currently under way on a $1.2 billion program to enhance and expand Terminal 4, adding nine new gates and creating a state-of-the-art gateway for New York's fastest growing global airline. That facility will open in spring 2013.

New and expanded service to the Caribbean and Bermuda includes:

New daily year-round service between LaGuardia and Bermuda.
New Saturday flights between JFK and St. Maarten.*
LaGuardia-Nassau flights will be expanded from seasonal to year-round service.
JFK-Montego Bay, Jamaica, flights will grow from Saturday seasonal to daily service.
JFK-Aruba service will increase from Saturday seasonal flights to daily year-round service.
JFK-Punta Cana, Dominican Republic, flights will expand from Saturday seasonal to daily year-round service.

New and expanded service to Florida includes:

Two new flights between LaGuardia and Sarasota, Fla.
A new flight between JFK and Fort Myers, Fla.
A fourth daily flight between LaGuardia and Fort Myers.
A fifth daily flight between LaGuardia and Miami.
A fifth daily flight between LaGuardia and Tampa.
A second daily flight between JFK and Tampa.

Carl Spackler

What a great quote. Your partner slowplay should read it because he's plenty willing to fight...as long as he knows the results will be beneficial prior to the fight.

Carl

Carl Spackler

I agree orvil...you married way over your head!

Carl

Sink r8

Tendind towards voting for it, but I would consider changing that vote if I saw a credible plan B as well. I don't see the plan B yet. The problems:

1) Pilot side: I don't know what we'd want to make better if it failed. I don't think there is a consensus. I suspect money, but that's not a given. I suppose we'd have to poll, and/or fight over this, and both take time.

2) Company side: their credibility is at stake, just like ours. There is no middle ground: if we pass this, it shows our ambitions don't match our rethoric; if the company gives us a better second deal, it sets the stage for TA's that fail. Someone is going to come out looking weak.

3) The precedent: For the most part, second offers have to come back worse than the first, otherwise there is an incentive to stall. Last example at this airline was the JCBA deal. There was more in the first offer, including immediate DC parity. Think about how much this has cost some of the N piltos. At other airlines, the most recent example I see is Air Tran, and we all know how that went.

...

I think (and I'm probably dreaming) that the best possible outcome would be for the negotiators to engage the company NOW, and come up with some face-saving tweaking of this thing. Call it resolving technical issues, tweak a thing or two, and sweeten the pot slightly for the money guys, and it's probably there.

Meanwhile, I don't see the path where we turn it down, and get something better. I'm willing to listen if someone else has a credible plan, and can explain what we rally around, and how we get it done.

dragon

Missed this gem while going through all the posts. I usually skim your posts anyway because of their usual doom and gloom tone. Having said that you have just proven the old adage "Better to let people think you're stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

There are any number of ex-Military guys on this board alone who've already come out in opposition to this TA. I haven't decided yet, trying vainly to keep an open mind while strongly leaning no.

You insult the men and women who served your country and now work by your side at Delta. All of whom want what's best for their families.

slowplay

Yet again, Carl, you can't handle the truth.

Carl Spackler

You WON'T see that man. Alfaromeo has already stated that WE (the pilots) better have a plan B if we vote this down. Apparently, our MEC doesn't have one. That's why it's looking like the MEC and management has always considered our MEMRAT just a rubber stamp. Witness RA and others talking about our TA as if it is already a done deal.

Carl