Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1200615)

I'm sorry, but your dad may not have an idea about what goes on with unions and bargaining. Normally, pattern bargaining is the way to go, having several unions bargaining to build on each other's gains. We are a legacy that had a BK, and there are others that have done the same. Unfortunately, the others haven't done squat to help us, especially with pattern bargaining. Zilch.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1200539)

You might be right on that as a worst case scenario, but Richard has never impressed me as that sort of vindictive man. I've known him for over 20 years. He's really just an icey businessman who is strictly a data guy. I believe he's thinking of this TA as a quick walk-off home run if he could pull it off, but he's not expecting it. If we vote it down, he's already got the next TA written which will still let him do what the data says is smart. My bet is that the second TA is something he's absolutely certain will get 51%. But he'd be foolish to show it until he has to.

Carl

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1200615)

So, what are the options? We can demand more and vote down a TA that was put together by "professional" negotiators (other than our pilot negotiators) who probably know what they are doing, and did the best they could compared to our buddies at UA/AA/US. If we do vote it down, then we have to have a plan, like RA probably has.

Originally Posted by Elvis90 (Post 1200685)

Oil is below $90/barrel. The company is poised to make money out the wazoo (as they say in Minnesota). If this keeps up, I could see increasing mainline flying and immediate hiring need. Oh, and a $2.5 Billion profit, which will eventually require the company to set the 20% profit sharing down to 15% or less. Can you imagine them giving away $500+ Million to employees, like an immediate 10-12% pay bump?

Originally Posted by Going2Baja (Post 1200706)

Nice scope protection from AS...They are adding another SEA ATL and starting SAN to MCO....those sure sound like DAL routes. If wonder if their code-shared?

Baja.

Originally Posted by vprMatrix (Post 1200431)

First, I think we are being wrongfully sold on the idea that we (the pilots) have any control here. The one thing we can control is passing the TA which would limit the number of 76 jets to a number less than 255 but we are grandfathering in 102 other aircraft that are about the same size so the math for most of us is coming out that we are allowing 325 vs 255 >50 seat aircraft.

The 50 seaters are not in our control. Delta will still have to negotiate the departure of these aircraft and if we don't pass the TA Delta will still find a way to get the fleet to where they want it. Delta has successfully destroyed
several of their regional carriers already.

You claim that voting no will ensure that we will have more 76 seaters than this TA would allow and this is not true. It is an assumption that you are making that Delta would use a pump and dump scenario to do this which would cost a huge amount to Delta thanks to the grievance settlement from a few years ago requiring airplanes needing to be on the property to be counted.

Delta already said that the 717 deal is dependent on this TA so without it there are no 717s to take us over 767 mainline aircraft, therefore the 76 seaters stay at 153 and Delta keeps working at parking 50 seats at every possible opportunity. If this is just a bluff by Delta they could by the 717s anyway but they must take delivery of every one of them with out parking any mainline aircraft for the time it take to get all of the 70 seat aircraft traded/sold and new 76 seat aircraft bought. This means that Delta would have one huge surplus of aircraft including DC9s they really want to park if they really did intend to "pump and dump." It makes no financial sense for Delta to do this as it would require several years of a huge surplus in the fleet.

Originally Posted by hoserpilot (Post 1200699)

Just because it's not an aviation company does not mean there is no relation. Business is business.

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude (Post 1200538)

Slow, when is Delta or DALPA doing to tell us definitively that we are not taking any air tran guys with the 717s? That rumor needs to be officially squashed before the vote.