Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

OK ya'll.. I am done with this. You have obviously made up your mind based on what you are willing to look at and the 76 seats.. You win.. Vote no, and I will cancel out 1 vote.

I will be able to say "I told you so" when this is over.

Bye

We'll come back to this in a few months and see where we are. if the TA fails and a better TA is passed with tighter scope & better pay, we'll be glad to accept your thanks for our steadfastness toward a real industry-leading contract.

forgot to bid

05-29-2012 06:37 PM

I hate black socks.

Carl Spackler

05-29-2012 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1234 (Post 1199785)

I am sorry Carl, but you will get that DC beginning in 2014, so there is only one more year that you will not be getting the DC due to the fact that we "saved the pension" and you were full. Just out of curiousity, how much is your frozen pension per year and how much of a lump sum benefit do you have?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1199843)

I'd put the chances of Carl honestly answering that at slightly less than the congress passing a budget in Obama's first term..

Nice try though.

You know tsquare, if I had posted what you just posted above, I would apologize given this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1200495)

OK, whether it's 2014 or 2015 the fact is that I don't get it now and haven't for a number of years. I wouldn't have even brought it up had you not referenced me personally as geting XX in pay and 40,000 a year in dc payments. You used that premise to then ask me a question. I felt it only proper to remind you that your premise was wrong. There are many junior folks that I fly with who are thankful we on the top half are giving all our dc payments to the bottom half, others flat-out tell me to my face that I should be giving more. Regardless, water under the bridge and will be until 2014 or 2015. I was only trying to be accurate and honest in response to the question that you were posing.

My final average earnings when it was frozen was just under 20K per month. With freeze, we went from 60% of final average earnings to 50% FAE. That puts my monthly pension at age 60 at just under 10K per month...if it's not terminated by then that is. If I stay all the way to 60, then about 1500 per month of that pension is available to be had as a lump sum as opposed to monthly payments. I've heard the lump sum for this is about 100K, but I won't know until I retire at 60.

Carl

forgot to bid

05-29-2012 06:43 PM

Cyber-attack concerns raised over Boeing 787 chip's 'back door' | Technology | guardian.co.uk

Carl Spackler

05-29-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonster (Post 1199855)

I have not been reading the forums over the holiday weekend but would like to through something into the pot. In my extended family, I have some people on the management side of labor, big business and not applebees. I showed them parts of the TA and the change from our old contract. They laughed at how little we receive with the leverage we had. They had been casually reading about the Delta news for awhile, because I am a pilot with Delta.

Before all of the YES voters go running to the polls. Talk to people who are not in aviation, both in management and labor. They will give you the correct reality check. Management wins BIG with this one and we, as Mongo would say,” are just pawns in where choo choo go”

Thanks for posting this. Sometimes we all get wrapped up in thinking and talking to folks who are exclusive members of our own tribe. It can be really illuminating getting the perspective of professionals from other professions.

Carl

Boomer

05-29-2012 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1200503)

Cyber-attack concerns raised over Boeing 787 chip's 'back door' | Technology | guardian.co.uk

Oh great, the 787 has a back door. whathafuh, Boeing? :mad:

gloopy

05-29-2012 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1200409)

My bottom line point is that there is absolutely no way those 76 seat airplanes can come here and be competitive.. none.

They don't have to be "competitive" with the cut throat DCI outsourcing machine. That is a management fantasy. Our 320's don't have to "be competitive" with VX's pay and benefits. They only have to be competitive in that they can be flown with a cost structure that fits others in the mainline fleet WRT CASM. Same for the 90 seat "RJ's". There is always someone willing to fly a plane cheaper than someone else. Unlike the DCI RFP's you don't have to be the lowest bidder when you own the scope.

Even a substantial dollar/hr increase vs the highest cost DCI carrier is to the right of the decimal on the CASM number. The 90 seaters absolutely can be flown at mainline well within reason of any other mainline AC CASM. Even if its a little bit higher, that cost can easily be amortized over the size of the (second) largest (and continually shrinking to profitability) airline in the world.

Carl Spackler

05-29-2012 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotFrog (Post 1199865)

I actually had a trip and am now way behind. Im too lazy to go back and read everything as I'm in the middle of moving, but I do have a burning question I haven't seen the answer to.

In the TA WHAT is the penalty to Delta for exceeding the ratio. As far as I recall there is also a ratio between the JV members for Atlantic flying. I also remember the window for compliance was just recently changed with no MEMRAT.

I hypothesize that Delta knows it will probably one day be out of compliance with the ratio of mainline vs. DCI and will come to DALPA before they have any idea it might happen and ask for a little give and take and BAM our hard fought section scope is weakened by an MOU.

Oooo run on sentence.

First of all, there is no requirement for Delta management to even measure the ratio until mid 2014. Then if it turns out Delta has exceeded the RJ ratio, they have until January 2015 to "execute their plan" to bring the RJ block hour ratio back into compliance.

I know that wasn't your question, but the measuring metric and timeline is important. Your question was one of penalty. There is NONE. There is only a requirement to...and I quote: "...execute their plan" to bring the RJ block hour ratio back into complicance. Our only option at that point would be to file a grievance. Then the grievance will be scheduled and eventually heard by an arbitrator. Then the arbitrator will park us for 15 to 20 years simply because somebody said they can. :D Then there's a possibility that the arbitrator will rule that Delta must put the RJ block hour ratio back into complicance...or he could decide that "ratio" didn't mean what DALPA thought it meant and find for the company.

Carl

gloopy

05-29-2012 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1200406)

Fine. IF you want to base your vote on total conjecture (another merger that comes with RJ feed etc etc etc..) then by all means do so.
Let me suggest a movie that might help all with the seemingly endless inundation of paranoia. War Games. The only move is not to play. And with that in mind, vote no, and let's watch what happens. The sad thing is that most of you that are espousing that action FOR the reasons that you are advocating them will disappear from these boards... Vote whatever way you want, but I implore you to do so based on the facts and not the preconceived notions that I am reading here.

It is no tin foil hat crackpot theory that we are more likely to see another transactional event than not. In fact its pretty obvious we are and everyone in the industry knows it. Its established canon in this era of aviation we're in that further consolidation is a certainty and its very likely DL will participate.

I'm not basing my vote on that possibility, as my vote on the TA more than stands on its own regardless of that issue. But we do need to be weighing the realistic possibilities of DL being involved in another transactional event and the AS example I used is at least on the short list of the more likely possibilities.

Carl Spackler

05-29-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1199897)

As I said previously, it's not their only option. Delta can proceed with us or without us. Some guys here think Delta's only option is with us. Why would management spend more money than they want/have to if Delta has options?

Delta has those options because they don't even consider the possibility that their friends in DALPA will let them down and oppose them on anything. Negotiations occur with everyone on the same side of the table.

In a real union/management relationship, one of the options Delta would have to factor in is a really bad reaction by the union leadership, and the pilot membership. Thus putting their plan of labor peace into question when they go looking for asset financing.

So to answer your question, given the fact that we are represented by DALPA, there's no reason for them to spend more money because they're convinced they know what all their options are.

Carl

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