Tsquare, the sun does not rise and set with DAL for everybody. For you, it sure does. You are a 757/767 captain at DAL. You have invested a lot of years in this company and it won't make any sense for you to leave DAL.

But for many junior folks, it is a different story. In 2005, a good friend of mine left Delta for Emirates. He got to the left seat of the 777 in a short time. Like many, Middle East was not for him. He did a lateral move to Korean, thanks to the 777 PIC time he got at Emirates. Today he flies a 777 from the left seat for Korean based in LAX. (You can do lateral moves in the international contract world... something you can never do in the US. If your company bites the dust (like Pan Am, Braniff, TWA etc), you go back to square one in the US. You can't even leave for a decent foreign contract at that point if you don't have left seat time in some markeatable airplane. In the contract world, you make a lateral move if things go south at the airline you're with. In the US, your dreams (and your bank account) will die with your airline).

Had my buddy stayed at Delta, he would still be yanking gear on the mad-dog making pittance compared to what he is making today. He flies two trips a month and has a great QOL. So don't be naive enough to think that one is going to regret their decision, if they ever leave DAL.

DAL is just an average airline at the moment. I have said this before and I say again: I make $7700/month flying a widebody jet at Delta. After taxes and all deductions, that amount drops to around $5500 per month. That is embarrassingly low pay compared to even pilots in some third world countries. My buddy who left Delta in 2005 did a fantastic move for him and his family... good for him.

On the other hand I do admit that DAL could end up being the best damn job in the world as well. We will all find that out when we reitire. But for a junior pilot right now, with the data he/she has in front of them currently, Delta is nowhere near the best. The results of the current contract negotiations will definitely be another factor in many pilots' decision to stay or leave.

This is unfortunately very true.

freightguy

Fair enough, I sometimes forget I am writing on an anonymous web board since I am sure everybody knows who I am anyway. You are right that DAL is not the be-all, end-all, and I am not saying that. What I AM saying is that I would rather work for the worst American carrier anyday than the best middle east one. You confirm that with your buddies' story. (curious.. what kind of schedule does he have at Korean.. does he get holidays off.. can he bid for his kids' birthdays? or does his schedule just get published like Cathay?) I know others that have left there. (M R Rats) And while lateral moves might be possible, you have zero protection when/if those foreign carriers want to fire you. Not the kind of job "security" I would want, but to each his own..

How do you figure that? If you are a widebody FO I am guessing you have at least 7 or 8 years of longevity. Delta 7-8 year widebody FO pay is around $145 - $150 per hour. Even if you are reserve making only guarantee that is over $10,000 per month. And thats not even counting international override. How are you a widebody FO making only $7700 per month?

I just looked at APC's payscales for 757/767 and top FO pay at the 12th year is $129 an hour. Some of the lines in ATL were around 65 hours this month, with few international trips, so no International override. I think you are mistaken. The cut in capacity has resulted in another pay cut for Delta pilots, with very little opentime available too to pick up or to swap trips for more pay. Are you sure you are a 7ER B?

I don't know his situation but the are second year pilots in NYC on the ER. That's $6,488/month before taxes.

As pilots, we are trained and paid to manage risk. Thus, for the most part we are very risk adverse people.

Exhibit one. Look at how DAL and DALPA sells information to us. Remember lthe letter 51 "lounge visits." Those were tailored to that part of our traits in that sense. Comments like "what else are you qualified to do if this company goes chapter 7, you have only flown airplanes your whole adult life." "What are you going to do if the doors close?"

And the all time classic comment from a manager in a shirt and tie, no joke, "The next words out of your mouth will be do you want fries with that if you vote this down." Smart as it worked.

Point being, we all need a plan B whether itr is KAL, another career, business on the side, whatever. As much as people like you T believe that there is job protection here, there is not. it is fleeting and a job loss can come in any form.

Wear your sunglasses in the cocpit, at home on the lake, etc? Incidents of a disease rarely seen are skyrocketing in pilots. Melanoma of the retina.

Over flying MSP, any number of speed bumps out there can derail us.

Have a plan B. Cultivate options. Having them allows one to live their life without their tail between their legs. Oh, and finally, don't believe the guy in a tie at lounge shows. Pilots are desired in the corporate world. Ask anyone that was furloughed and went there if you can find one. Most never returned. You won't have to make fries.

75/76 is a narrow / wide body category. You end up flying the narrow more than you do the wide so when he said he was a wide body FO I didn't think he was claiming to be a 7ERB. I have averaged over $7300 per month so far this year as a 7ERB and I am not even on 3rd year pay yet. When I hit 3rd year pay my guarantee alone will be almost $7700 and no, I don't go around claiming to be a "widebody FO" as a 7ERB since I mostly fly the 757. A true widebody pilot is on the 777/747/330/76ER.

I had a plan B from day one, and it didn't include airplanes. The other part is not having any significant debt. I am not worried about making fries for a living.

What's Emirates paying 777 Captains these days?

In 2005 (?) I was told it was only about $10,000/month.