What happened to the "response" thread.

That's got be some kind of record.

Nu

At least we have someone here being honest. Pilots are supposed to continue with an extension to a bankruptcy contract in order to help pay down debt incurred by incredibly stupid management. Management that spent billions it didn't have buying back its own stock, only to watch it go to zero in bankruptcy. Management that spent billions buying Comair, only to personally destroy it. The debt from those actions need to be repaid by pilots until this debt is paid down to a manageable level. And we all need to hope no more further stupid debt is incurred...because pilots may just have to continue the debt paydown.

Carl

I redacted the content- shouldnt have been posted on the forums just like the C20 letter. I made a new thread to discuss it, though.

It should have gone through the same distribution means as the C20 letter.

I don't think anyone on here will argue against that point. Don't forget buying ASA for $1.5B and then selling it for $425M.:eek: I don't like continually cleaning up former management's mistakes any more than you, but "It is what it is." Who else in the company is going to clean up their messes? The FA group? My wife is a 22 year DAL FA. She just got a $1.52 per hour raise. Wow, time to buy that new swimming pool.:rolleyes: OK, that's not even a cup of Starbucks! I'm not comparing the two groups, but can you imagine the insult if they offered us that? What is that, a coke and a bag of Fritos? LOL

Yep... and here we are paying for the 50 seater overbuying mistake with this TA...

How much of a raise did they get percentage-wise, Waves?

I actually decided to do some math (in this case, factual as best as I could).

From the JCBA

2008 737 F/O Pay $104/hour
2015 737 F/O Pay $148/hour

That works out to a compounded 4.41% rate of increase - just barely beats inflation. From BK wages we have barely kept pace with inflation and this TA does the same - just barely (and depending on the calculations, with many countries (including ours) needing to inflate the currency to pay off massive debt) not at all I guess we've come to expect that our training is not worth very much at all. Our health care has gotten worse, our pension is gone, our DC plan will not even come close to matching what was lost in DB plan (unless you're a new hire in your 30's), and now we're going to permanently reset what we're worth with this contract. For those of you saying a bird in hand, what are you going to do if we have to live with these rates until Jan 1, 2018 (remember what everyone is quoting for full Section 6 - no reason the company can't put us through that in 2015 when we don't have an "Opportunity"). Just something to think about - I really get the impression that DALPA has no plan B, no strategic plan going forward for the 2015 negotiations and we're two-three steps behind the company (again!) in negotiations.

Wait a minute - I'm a little slow. Why would flaps 5 allow higher derates?

The airplane performs better stage 2 climb with less flaps, thus more derate being allowed as long as the runway allows it. The drawback being a bit more fuel burned due to looooong takeoff rolls and of course... looooong takeoff rolls.

Ahhh yes, that makes sense. We should be doing that. Instead, when faced with a hard working engine (EGT climbs above 595 during TO), we slap a sticker on the ART, work the engine even harder - but hey, now we're good to go all the way to 630 degrees. ;)