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Bill, in 2015, would you be willing to give up 70 more CR9s to replace 125 uneconomical CR2s if the company agrees to get... mmmm.... 15 maybe 16 B777-300s!!!?
That way DCI is down 125 jets! And then capped! Huge win! Right? |
Da plane da plane....
Oh wait that was Tatoo, from Fantasy Island, but Aeromexico is gracing the ATL with its presence again:
Aeromexico returning to Atlanta |
Originally Posted by Boomer
(Post 1217237)
This is exactly accurate in my experience. Delta doles out the DCI flying as if one RJ is the same as any other.
The rub is when they have five daily flights in/out of DFW and one is Comair, one is Pinnacle, one is Compass, and two are ASA. Delta gives Comair the 9am arrival, and the 7pm departure. Two crews idle (one done for the day before breakfast, and one starting the day after dinner) and an aircraft parked all day long. Delta gives Compass the noon arrival and the 11am departure. So there is a crew and aircraft idle in DFW for 23 hours of every day. Delta gives Pinnacle the 11pm arrival and the 6am departure. Less than 8 on the ground, so the crew winds up having a 31 hour overnight and another unpaid day away from home. The two ASA flights are on the ground for 45 minutes, and those guys are DFW commuters and would love the 31 hour overnight the Pinnacle guys got. What Comair, Compass, and Pinnacle wind up doing is leaving aircraft on the ramp and Deadheading crews on each other's metal, bumping Delta commuters and passengers in the process. Very cost effective on paper, I'm sure. Boomer, everything you said is spot on except one calculation.. the value of inter and intra whipsawing. Sorry I made the term up :D. But getting ASA to Whipsaw Comair and get both to whipsaw mainline. |
Great post Bar
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1217226)
Thank you for the candid response.
But how can we look at repeated failure in the billions and say "m'eh, that's in the past" while dealing with current failures which are costing Delta money? Like the example of JT8D reliability, "unscheduled" engine removals are a cost and eventually get averaged in. My friends who underwrite Delta's risk management program consider our carrier a "bad risk" due to the losses they have sustained as a result of obligations to DCI carriers who were under our risk management program. Those sorts of factors clearly impact our Company's bottom line and management are FOOLS if they do not consider these costs. We are one crash away from being in the same Dog House FedEx was in when they crashed two MD11's, a 727 and put an A300 in Subic Bay all in one policy year. "hello, Mohammed... I mean Prince ... I understand you're our insurer now? Why won't you pay our claims? Oh you say weg can't force a sovereign King to pay? But you charged us twice what Lloyds wants ..." ALPA should be pointing out that flawed logic... LOUDLY! Beating up DCI pilots for further concessions will not be enough to fix what's wrong with the model. There just is not enough money to be had from that source (besides the hypocrisy of our union participating in such a scheme). DCI, to survive, is going to experience escalating costs which Delta is going to have to pay. Call it unexpected if you want, but mark my words, the current model is unsustainable at current rates. GoJets is a time (longevity) bomb, just as Mesa was. How much can pilot wages offset ?
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Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg
(Post 1217262)
You still don't understand. 200 plus 50 seaters are GONE. Then add 70 larger ones. The middle ones, (102 70 seaters) would FILL IN for some of the 200 smaller ones leaving. Then there would still be room for 76 seaters to take some of the 50 seater routes. Then throw in 88 717s. Those would fill in for better performing 76 seat routes. It's a simple concept you are missing.
BTW, here could be a hint from RA himself on Plan B: Richard Anderson: " if our pilots turn down the agreement. It is premature to get into the specifics of that plan, but our time and the significant value dedicated to this agreement and re-fleeting will have to be rededicated to the alternative plan. Our relationship with ALPA will continue but the near-term opportunities I mentioned above will be lost and we will no longer be under the same time constraints that were necessary to close this deal." Go ahead, roll the dice. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1217365)
Bill, in 2015, would you be willing to give up 70 more CR9s to replace 125 uneconomical CR2s if the company agrees to get... mmmm.... 15 maybe 16 B777-300s!!!?
That way DCI is down 125 jets! And then capped! Huge win! Right? You've got to hand it to the company. They are genius and Jedi. Nowhere else could they get away with offering as carrots to us things that I think they were going to do anyway. Early Retirements: As I remember, just about every other employee group got them last year, but we were not. Why? Delta will just offer them to the pilots as part of their TA next year. B-717's: How long have we been hearing that the company got them and that the mechanics were going to 717 school? Since last winter at least. But yet, no announcement. Why? Delta will just offer them to the pilots as part of the TA next year. B-777: [Story still to be written. But, will probably go as FTB suggests.] Alfa, Bill, and Slow are right. Those guys are smart. Is there a way we could hire RA to represent us and give us legal and strategic advice? That would be a great investment for us as pilots. :rolleyes: :D |
Originally Posted by newKnow
(Post 1217417)
Is there a way we could hire RA to represent us and give us legal and strategic advice? That would be a great investment for us as pilots. :rolleyes: :D
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I'll take the infraction:
Bill, I wil roll the dice. This profession was not built on the backs of cowards and people of weak spirit and mind. If you cannot handle rocking the boat on occasion, do the profession a favor and get out. If you cannot afford the lack of 19% over three years, ask your wife to pull some weight or live within your means. I will add this, consider the disdain industry pilots have towards APA and Crandall for B-scale. When we end up with 3x the 70/76-seaters as UAL has 70-seaters and the new industry norm becomes 75% outsourced, remember who embraced and pushed that agenda. Also, understand your fellow OAL professionals will look down at you every time you stop for a coffee, sit down at a restaurant, etc. Former DAL pilots will have no respect for you and the hat you love so much will become a target for ridicule. If I end up flying with you, expect checklist only conversation; in fact that goes for any current ALPA type pushing this TA. What we individually leave behind is nothing we can take with us on that final check flight westbound. The only thing a guy like yourself will leave behind is a legacy of lies and betrayal. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
And if thats the case looking only at crew costs as you're doing, there is not a mainline aircraft they wouldn't operate cheaper than us. So again, why not outsource the B717 Bill? Why do you want to outsource the DC9-10 and not the DC9-30 sized airplanes? Crew costs are 28% higher with modest DCI margins on the CRJ-900. Delta mainline also pays their "behind the scenes" employees more and provides better benefits. Everything is more expensive at mainline, but diluted over 110+ seats versus 76 seats, the economy of scale begins to take effect. Hence - outsourcing. Why must you all be so concerned with what management is doing? Is it that important to get yours, or to sabotage management, or to prove your point? Do you feel like you made a HUGE mistake allowing the outsourcing to begin with? You're not making any sense. You're just being greedy and not acting in the best interest of your Delta "family". |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Great post Bar
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