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-   -   Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Bill Lumberg 07-11-2012 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1228088)

I think that said the penalty can be reduced according to the article.

acl65pilot 07-11-2012 02:50 PM

Timbo,
The biggest savings is debt service on debt Dal holds on their ledger. Outsourcing allows others to hold our debt and Dal to pay it through operational service fees. We show less debt with a broader operational footprint with overall less debt service.

Bill Lumberg 07-11-2012 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1228108)
Renups or an agreed to sli remove that risk. Real question is why would th regional guys want it when DALPA and Rhen Dal pilots are still giving up career enhancing jets to DCI?

If there was a strategic vision with the scope modification we just made or PWA there would be a stick involved. As it stands it's a one time mod with a next time mod of the 50's and 70's on deck.

None of you guys seem to understand the part where 200 plus 50 seaters leave, and then the larger RJs cover for them. Even mainline planes are now starting to recapture or re-enter old 737-200 or DC9 routes, and the 88 717s haven't even arrived yet. Starting in SEP DC9s will go back to Asheville, Wilmington, and CHA. 319s will go to Roanoke. FAY will be upgraded to an MD88. All of those places were banished to all RJ service after 9-11, and they are starting to come back, even before we get a boatload of 717s. The key was to reduce the TOTAL number of outsourced jobs and RJs. The routes will still have to be covered.

Timbo 07-11-2012 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1228126)
Timbo,
The biggest savings is debt service on debt Dal holds on their ledger. Outsourcing allows others to hold our debt and Dal to pay it through operational service fees. We show less debt with a broader operational footprint with overall less debt service.

"Ahhh...so it's a Money thing!" :D

(name that movie)

Bucking Bar 07-11-2012 02:59 PM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1228126)
Timbo,
The biggest savings is debt service on debt Dal holds on their ledger. Outsourcing allows others to hold our debt and Dal to pay it through operational service fees. We show less debt with a broader operational footprint with overall less debt service.

Who finances the airplane has nothing to do with who sits in a control seat.

(know you know this ... just sayin)

Enemyofthestate 07-11-2012 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1228086)
A in depth costing study was done. The numbers between the union and company were quite different however they showed even using best case numbers for us that a 70 seat operation could not be run at the mainline. When you start getting near 80 seats it becomes a he said she said discussion. That is how we have arrived at 76 seats. The company offered quite a bit if we would bump the number to 82 seats with a GW increase. It went down to the last hours of negotiations. I suspect now that number on the companies part was to allow Skywest to order the larger MRJ. They will not be able to do that with the current agreement and even Skywest management acknowledges that. The smaller jet complies with the current scope clause.

Exactly - if we allowed up to certificated seats and GW, eliminated route restrictions and redundant management and training functions it becomes feasible. I would like to actually see the parameters used and compared in the study, however I'm guessing its secret as is anything where we might legitimately question something.

Speaking of I asked one of my Reps what the base by base breakdown was on the TA vote and he said they got the numbers but the MEC Chairman made them confidential.

Really.

http://cdn.ghosttheory.com/wp-conten...am-America.jpg

acl65pilot 07-11-2012 03:32 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1228133)
Who finances the airplane has nothing to do with who sits in a control seat.

(know you know this ... just sayin)

Not saying it does. I'm saying this is DAL's biggest motivator, not us. As for us, why would ALPA or the company think outside the traditional modification box, when our approval through the memrat process does not indicate a need to do so?

acl65pilot 07-11-2012 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by Enemyofthestate (Post 1228148)
Exactly - if we allowed up to certificated seats and GW, eliminated route restrictions and redundant management and training functions it becomes feasible. I would like to actually see the parameters used and compared in the study, however I'm guessing its secret as is anything where we might legitimately question something.

Speaking of I asked one of my Reps what the base by base breakdown was on the TA vote and he said they got the numbers but the MEC Chairman made them confidential.

Really.

http://cdn.ghosttheory.com/wp-conten...am-America.jpg

Yep, really. They know it and probably know vote percentages by base, seat, age et al, but it will not be published.

gloopy 07-11-2012 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 1228081)
No, DALPA would not support that, it would create a conflict of interest since ALPA would have to sue its regional pilots to make sure Delta pilot's seniority is protected during any type of scope recapture scenario.

Exactly. Better to take it back unilaterally than to give regional airlines even a snowball's chance at greater than a staple. There was a window of opportunity but its closed and nailed shut. That ship has sailed. We now have to fix this ourselves. I prefer quickly by cutting the beast's head off, but if we have to go the slow route of choking off the beast's growth and starving it to death over several contracts, I'm fine with that as well.

gloopy 07-11-2012 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1228088)

We make more than that in profit before lunchtime in one day. Not to mention it'll probably get reduced significantly anyway.


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