Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-17-2012, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
There has been some rumblings of some announcement early next year that does not include DAL. No idea what it is, but have been hearing that JA may be ready to move on his stand alone plan. Time will tell I guess.
07-17-2012, 08:35 AM
Da Hudge
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
There has been some rumblings of some announcement early next year that does not include DAL. No idea what it is, but have been hearing that JA may be ready to move on his stand alone plan. Time will tell I guess.
Ah yes, another regional CEO with stand alone plan. I can see no way how this well thought out plan could possibly fail.
07-17-2012, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Timbo
I guess it depends on how you define 'bigger'.
I see 737's replacing 757's and 767's (Domestic routes)
I see 787's eventually replacing 767ER's (a wash, size wise?) but maybe replacing 777's in 10 years, and 747's maybe sooner than that. The last I heard, the 787 is about the size of a 767ER, not the size of a 777 or 747.
I see the 717's as our only 'growth' airplane. Do we call that bigger? It is bigger than a 50 or 76 seat RJ, no doubt, but it's the smallest 'manline' airframe out there.
I don't see that as bigger, just more small narrow body flying with the 737's ((-900) and 717's.
I don't see Bigger coming any time soon, until we order and take delivery of something as big as the 777-300 and 747, I'm not holding my breath waiting for those. In the mean time, we will have pilots displaced off the 767/757 to the 737-900.
I see 737's replacing 757's and 767's (Domestic routes)
I see 787's eventually replacing 767ER's (a wash, size wise?) but maybe replacing 777's in 10 years, and 747's maybe sooner than that. The last I heard, the 787 is about the size of a 767ER, not the size of a 777 or 747.
I see the 717's as our only 'growth' airplane. Do we call that bigger? It is bigger than a 50 or 76 seat RJ, no doubt, but it's the smallest 'manline' airframe out there.
I don't see that as bigger, just more small narrow body flying with the 737's ((-900) and 717's.
I don't see Bigger coming any time soon, until we order and take delivery of something as big as the 777-300 and 747, I'm not holding my breath waiting for those. In the mean time, we will have pilots displaced off the 767/757 to the 737-900.
But in either case, 737-900's replacing 757's is not a loss in seats (weird, I agree). We can both remember a time when a 737 was just a little plane to fit below the 727 in the fleet, but a 737-900 vs. a 757 is actually a slight increase in seats, I believe. Vs. a 767-300 it's a loss, vs. an A320, it's a gain.
717's replacing 50-seat RJ's is a gain, although some of them replace DC-9 50's. A loss of seats, but not a loss of pay.
At ay rate, I'm not trying to sell a rosy picture on Delta's future fleet decisions (no idea what they will buy), I'm only looking at what mechanisms we have in our contract to capture revenue, and what the language encourages or discourages. The current system captures some of the revenue from added seats, an LBP sytem doesn't. I think a system that makes pilot cost a constant per seat is naturally better than one that makes it a constant per airframe. And I note the industry has moved, over time, towards bigger and bigger airplanes. It's a confluence of physics, logic, and economics that drive this. They want more butts per flight, and we want to be paid for each of those butts. I'll make exceptions for some of the really nice tushies, the likes of which you see when you offload a sorority charter in Punta Cana before a 36-hour layover.
07-17-2012, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Regionals already pushing back against plan to park 50 seaters:
With about 150 jets at the various SkyWest operations there simply aren't enough 76-seaters to go around and make the 3-for1 RJ swap financially interesting to SkyWest.
Word is all of the SkyWest 50-seaters will move from DCI to USAir...
The SkyWest MRJs will need 80ish seats to be cost effective (capital cost). With CRJ900s leased by Delta there is no financial incentive for SkyWest to purchase MRJs other than for flying them for another carrier.
Most likely Skywest MRJs will enter feed service for American (then merged with USAirways)
With more than 76-seats, the first MRJ delivered to SkyWest will also cause SkyWest to cease operations for DCI, because of the Section 1 limitations on 76-seat jets.
The elimination of the 150 or so 50-seaters at SkyWest will help create more favorable 50-for-76-seater exchange ratios for the other DCI carriers providing the incentive for breaking existing contracts.
SkyWest wins because they get to go after a new lucrative Jumbo RJ contract at American...
Pinnacle will remain the sole 50-seat jet operator for DCI...
Eagle will most likely be hurt by all of this...
YMMV
Cheers
George
07-17-2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Timbo
I guess it depends on how you define 'bigger'.
I see 737's replacing 757's and 767's (Domestic routes)
I see 787's eventually replacing 767ER's (a wash, size wise?) but maybe replacing 777's in 10 years, and 747's maybe sooner than that. The last I heard, the 787 is about the size of a 767ER, not the size of a 777 or 747.
I see the 717's as our only 'growth' airplane. Do we call that bigger? It is bigger than a 50 or 76 seat RJ, no doubt, but it's the smallest 'manline' airframe out there.
I don't see that as bigger, just more small narrow body flying with the 737's ((-900) and 717's.
I don't see Bigger coming any time soon, until we order and take delivery of something as big as the 777-300 and 747, I'm not holding my breath waiting for those. In the mean time, we will have pilots displaced off the 767/757 to the 737-900.
I see 737's replacing 757's and 767's (Domestic routes)
I see 787's eventually replacing 767ER's (a wash, size wise?) but maybe replacing 777's in 10 years, and 747's maybe sooner than that. The last I heard, the 787 is about the size of a 767ER, not the size of a 777 or 747.
I see the 717's as our only 'growth' airplane. Do we call that bigger? It is bigger than a 50 or 76 seat RJ, no doubt, but it's the smallest 'manline' airframe out there.
I don't see that as bigger, just more small narrow body flying with the 737's ((-900) and 717's.
I don't see Bigger coming any time soon, until we order and take delivery of something as big as the 777-300 and 747, I'm not holding my breath waiting for those. In the mean time, we will have pilots displaced off the 767/757 to the 737-900.
(Also, the 737-900 seats MORE than the 320 and the MD-90 seats MORE than the DC-9.)
07-17-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by shiznit
Why are so many people forgetting that almost half of the 737-900's will replace LOWER PAYING older A320's?
(Also, the 737-900 seats MORE than the 320 and the MD-90 seats MORE than the DC-9.)
(Also, the 737-900 seats MORE than the 320 and the MD-90 seats MORE than the DC-9.)
07-17-2012, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by shiznit
The 150 they operate is 25 more than the end state 125, so with the 61-70 new metric to gain 76's, they have to retire 4.6 50's per 76. (short roughly 5 airframes).
The company could only go to 218 76's if JA plays hardball.
Interesting..... But it could be JA just posturing publicly while knowing behind the scenes they will make the trades. Later SKYW will come out and say how through negotiations they were able to "improve the magins" over their current fleeting and provide "better returns for the shareholders and for a longer time period" while the plan was the same all along.
The company could only go to 218 76's if JA plays hardball.
Interesting..... But it could be JA just posturing publicly while knowing behind the scenes they will make the trades. Later SKYW will come out and say how through negotiations they were able to "improve the magins" over their current fleeting and provide "better returns for the shareholders and for a longer time period" while the plan was the same all along.
Which begs the question: "If Skywest takes delivery of an overweight MRJ and Delta is forced to cancel their DCI contracts, who will Delta use as a commuter out of SLC?" As far as I can tell, we rely on them A LOT out of SLC.
Denny
07-17-2012, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane
I cut and pasted below the pertinent paragraph from the article BB posted.
"SkyWest subsidiaries SkyWest Airlines and ExpressJet operate about 90 and 60 Bombardier CRJ200 aircraft , respectively, for Delta, under 15-year contracts that Kraupp says do not expire until 2020. Kraupp is emphatic that Delta does not have any rights in the current contract to tell SkyWest to cease the 50-seater operations before the agreements expire."
Denny
What Delta does have the ability to do is bounce their 50 seat fleet from domicile to domicile every 90 days for the next two years at a 75% reduction in block hours. Think they can't cease the 50 seat operation early? This guy's just trying to keep the stock price from imploding anyway.
07-17-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dalad
While I'm thinking about it, is anybody in a decent bond fund where my money can grow better than the Fidelity money market?
07-17-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 76drvr
What was the instantaneous C2K scope violation you refer too?
The brilliance of the scope section of our contract is that it is front loaded in the Delta pilots favor, if DAL can't comply, then they can't get more 76-seat aircraft, but all the other scope bennies, such as reducing the number of possible 76-seat aircraft, elimination of turboprop exemption, tightened domestic and international code share, global JV protections, improved furlough protection are still in our contract. Plus we get improved pay, sick leave, reserve pay etc.
The brilliance of the scope section of our contract is that it is front loaded in the Delta pilots favor, if DAL can't comply, then they can't get more 76-seat aircraft, but all the other scope bennies, such as reducing the number of possible 76-seat aircraft, elimination of turboprop exemption, tightened domestic and international code share, global JV protections, improved furlough protection are still in our contract. Plus we get improved pay, sick leave, reserve pay etc.
The instant problem was the DCI order for 500 jets prior to C2K. To maintain the ratios, mainline would have had to grow by 100% to remain in compliance with the arriving RJ's. Did anyone really think mainline was getting another 700 jets while DCI was getting 500 for a total fleet of around 2,100? It was nonsense and of course as a job protection device C2K scope failed immediately.
Thursday, March 30, 2000
BY MIKE BOYER
The Cincinnati Enquirer .... Comair and Atlantic Southeast Airlines, the Delta Connection carriers, Wednesday announced the largest regional jet order in history for up to 500 aircraft in the next decade.
BY MIKE BOYER
The Cincinnati Enquirer .... Comair and Atlantic Southeast Airlines, the Delta Connection carriers, Wednesday announced the largest regional jet order in history for up to 500 aircraft in the next decade.
Would be better for management if we insourced that flying at did it ourselves.
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