You mean we still cost too much?

Not really.

We will see what AMR does. Under the last LBO their reserves were 85 hrs max. So less efficient.

UCAL will have new work rules so you cannot compare yet. They are at CAL basically FAR MAX and that comes to effect in the summer where our reserves can fly or are on the hook for 99 hrs. So fairly equal

UAL still has some work rules but their trip rigs are comparable to ours. So are CAL's and AMR's except their current max fly stuff.

We average 87 hrs of credit per pilot per month. We all have similar work rules, so I would say we are as, if not more efficient than many of them.

A difference for example is:
CAL DH's the IRO over to europe if the Eastbound flight is less than 8 hrs resulting in it being credit and not flight time.


Many efficiency issues come from rotation construction. ADC of 4+30 will not drive more efficiency. It allows Carmen to build trips the way it does now. Fix rotation construction and any trip credit sans 6+ day trips and out and back redeyes will have no credit to them. It will all be hard time.

Because of this and other items, working more days or being on the hook more has to do with more than just one section of a CBA or PWA.

Sigh.........I'm going back to my corner before I really get laid into.

If you don't like JungleBus having an opinion, then I suggest not hiring regional pilots from this point forward.

They all have opinions because they're working in the system. They see how it works. They're not a blank slate. You might want to say, tarnished.

Now, he asked rhetorically why 2/3 of the pilot group would think the TA would cause anything but stagnation. The answer to his rhetorical question that wasn't asked can be summed up into a simple phrase:

Johnso;
We need to stop attacking this from that angle as well. Just because they have less than we do, and we may cost more, it does not mean we need to reach their efficiencies. We have a hurdle they can leap over and that is the baseline of pattern bargaining. We as a group need to start patterning up, not look for way that we cost more than someone else. That mentality will give us diminishing returns.

Yeah, we should have kept reserve pay at 70 hours.. or better yet, ALV -5 hours. THAT would have created movement.

I'd be floored if the kept anything close to that.

Except they can do it all year. Our changing ALV prevents that. Or our you stating CAL only does FAR max in the summer?

Last I saw, NB guys could be flown 95 hours and WB guys 92 hours

I know many on this board question the average 87 hour number. I remember lots of guys on this board screaming how they don't come close to 87 hours per month. Plus, that's due to what guys pick up on their own. Not what they're forced to fly, right?

Bad for them.

Is that really what's going on though? Especially going forward, and not looking at the autumn trough numbers, which doesn't count because there is no way they are going to cull the large WB fleets just for the fall anyway? Then consider the early outs, disproportionately from the large WB fleets (especially the 747), with more 747's coming back online in time for 2013 peak flying, and how much are they really carrying?

Again, let's not call the delta P between the autumn trough and peak summer a "carry" because that's not honest at all. Peak to peak, after backing out the early outs, is there much if any of a carry in the first place?