Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-24-2012, 02:32 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom
Imapilot2,
I personally am very appreciative of Bucking Bar's efforts with regard to this issue. His digging for the facts and tenacity in bringing them to light is outstanding.
I'm not a fan of ALPA or Lee Moak and this agreement just adds more fuel to that fire. ALPA either directly, or through its "cheerleaders" on this forum, claim there is no conflict of interest between its responsibilities to mainline and regional carriers.
I see this conduct by Delta management, by ALPA national, and by Pinnacle's LEC as direct evidence of that conflict of interest.
As MEC Chairman at Pinnacle I'm quite sure Tom Wychor knew exactly what he was doing, and he showed complete and total disrespect to Delta's LEC and the Delta pilots.
Sadly I have no confidence this will be overturned. I'm based in SLC and our LEC reps have a long history of being "yes" men. I'd go so far as to say their motto is "We've never met a concession we didn't like".
This type of shenanigans is exactly why I've kept my DPA card up to date and why I wear a DPA pin.
I personally am very appreciative of Bucking Bar's efforts with regard to this issue. His digging for the facts and tenacity in bringing them to light is outstanding.
I'm not a fan of ALPA or Lee Moak and this agreement just adds more fuel to that fire. ALPA either directly, or through its "cheerleaders" on this forum, claim there is no conflict of interest between its responsibilities to mainline and regional carriers.
I see this conduct by Delta management, by ALPA national, and by Pinnacle's LEC as direct evidence of that conflict of interest.
As MEC Chairman at Pinnacle I'm quite sure Tom Wychor knew exactly what he was doing, and he showed complete and total disrespect to Delta's LEC and the Delta pilots.
Sadly I have no confidence this will be overturned. I'm based in SLC and our LEC reps have a long history of being "yes" men. I'd go so far as to say their motto is "We've never met a concession we didn't like".
This type of shenanigans is exactly why I've kept my DPA card up to date and why I wear a DPA pin.
ALPA provides an excellent service and has an infrastructure which can not be replaced. The FedEx pilots left ALPA, came right back. The US Air pilots left ALPA, that has been a disaster for them. ALPA has served us well and will continue to do so, but we have to participate.
Any Rep can write the Association and ask for a review of the Pinnacle Bridge Agreement. The answer is to engage your Reps and have ALPA's processes lead to the correct result. Lets deal with the problem at hand.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 12-24-2012 at 02:43 PM.
12-24-2012, 02:38 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: CRJ 900
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
ALPA can negotiate anything. ALPA is our exclusive bargaining agent. Not the Delta MEC. The Delta MEC only enjoys it's status because of Article IV, Section 2 of the Constitution (which ALPA has vigorously defended until now).
That's why another pilot group negotiating with Delta management with the full support of ALPA is a very serious matter, particularly so when the rules are not followed.
All contracts have amenable dates. Scope changes during those negotiations. If we allow multiple pilot groups to write deals with Delta our contract negotiations will eventually become an auction house where the cheapest are used to whipsaw us in active bargaining.
That's why another pilot group negotiating with Delta management with the full support of ALPA is a very serious matter, particularly so when the rules are not followed.
All contracts have amenable dates. Scope changes during those negotiations. If we allow multiple pilot groups to write deals with Delta our contract negotiations will eventually become an auction house where the cheapest are used to whipsaw us in active bargaining.
I am not quite sure I understand what was done outside of the norm here. It is my understanding that the Pinnacle agreement only secures 81 of the CRJ 900s that are already allowed under your scope agreement, and a preferential interview with Delta, unlike the Followthrough agreement already in place. Correct me if I am wrong but it does not guarantee any flying that is not already done by DCI partners. Isn't this the same as the Compass agreement as well as the contract agreement Skywest has in SLC for a certain percentage of DCI flying. Don't get me wrong I would have loved to have seen your last JCBA call for all flying in house but wasn't the relaxation on 76 scope a compromise on your pilot groups behalf to get the SWA 717?
12-24-2012, 02:42 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
BE24,
Kindly read back a few pages to learn how the Pinnacle TA modifies the current Delta PWA. No DCI carriers have ever had a contract directly with our employer, Delta Air Lines. To the best of my knowledge this is a precedent in the history of our union. If it hasn't been done until now, there is a reason.
I don't oppose the idea of Pinnacle following our Admin Manual and working with the Delta pilots. The problem here is that the process what not followed and the Delta MEC was not involved.
We can work together to resolve conflicts of interest if your side will bother telling us what is going on instead of trying to hijack the President we share.
Kindly read back a few pages to learn how the Pinnacle TA modifies the current Delta PWA. No DCI carriers have ever had a contract directly with our employer, Delta Air Lines. To the best of my knowledge this is a precedent in the history of our union. If it hasn't been done until now, there is a reason.
I don't oppose the idea of Pinnacle following our Admin Manual and working with the Delta pilots. The problem here is that the process what not followed and the Delta MEC was not involved.
We can work together to resolve conflicts of interest if your side will bother telling us what is going on instead of trying to hijack the President we share.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 12-24-2012 at 03:02 PM.
12-24-2012, 03:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
BE24,
Kindly read back a few pages to learn how the Pinnacle TA modifies the current Delta PWA. No DCI carriers have ever had a contract directly with our employer, Delta Air Lines. To the best of my knowledge this is a precedent in the history of our union. If it hasn't been done until now, there is a reason.
I don't oppose the idea of Pinnacle following our Admin Manual and working with the Delta pilots. The problem here is that the process what not followed and the Delta MEC was not involved.
We can not work together to resolve conflicts of interest if your side does not bother telling us what is going on.
Kindly read back a few pages to learn how the Pinnacle TA modifies the current Delta PWA. No DCI carriers have ever had a contract directly with our employer, Delta Air Lines. To the best of my knowledge this is a precedent in the history of our union. If it hasn't been done until now, there is a reason.
I don't oppose the idea of Pinnacle following our Admin Manual and working with the Delta pilots. The problem here is that the process what not followed and the Delta MEC was not involved.
We can not work together to resolve conflicts of interest if your side does not bother telling us what is going on.
Has LM already signed this? If he can withhold signature, he needs to be pressured to do so. That's clear. But what if he's already signed it? How can we fix it then? And if certain people at Pinnacle have intentionally violated our exclusive agreement with DL then they need to be dismissed from the guaranteed interview at the very least.
I will also be writing to urge agressive, mercilless compliance by any legal means necessary WRT the intentional, flagrant, no plan to comply JV production imbalance. The ONLY remedy for that is flying, Period. We are due well over 50% to rebalance and I expect every single block hour of that because we sure gave them plenty on our end. The EU economy has nothing to do with this because the percentages apply to whatever the flying is anyway so that straw dog don't hunt.
12-24-2012, 03:10 PM
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by BE24pilot
I am not quite sure I understand what was done outside of the norm here. It is my understanding that the Pinnacle agreement only secures 81 of the CRJ 900s that are already allowed under your scope agreement, and a preferential interview with Delta, unlike the Followthrough agreement already in place. Correct me if I am wrong but it does not guarantee any flying that is not already done by DCI partners. Isn't this the same as the Compass agreement as well as the contract agreement Skywest has in SLC for a certain percentage of DCI flying. Don't get me wrong I would have loved to have seen your last JCBA call for all flying in house but wasn't the relaxation on 76 scope a compromise on your pilot groups behalf to get the SWA 717?
Scope was tightened. Less DCI pilots flying less DCI seats. It was a marked improvement that brought flying back to main line. Those are facts. What scope was relaxed for 76 seat flying? They were already on the property being flown by DCI. Yes more aircraft were ordered. Uninformed say it is a give away. The facts and MATH do not support that at all. A CRJ whether a 200 or a 900 is still flown by non-delta pilots. Those jobs have been reduced and hard caps put in place for the first time. It is a start, not perfect but a start. The reduction in DCI flying allows more markets for main line 717, that is a benefit to DAL pilots. To answer your question, no scope was not relaxed , in fact the opposite with reference to the 717. Bombardier and DAL worked a deal to give back more CRJ 200 in exchange for a CRJ900 order. Still dramatically reducing DCI seats and exposure of DAL passengers to the DCI product.
12-24-2012, 03:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Merry Christmas brothers and sisters! It's a sincere privilege to be a teammate for the greatest airline in the world. Thanks for all you do every day. And thanks for the continued education and laughs.
12-24-2012, 03:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by cni187
Die hard 49ers fan here and yes that was a butt kicking. What made it worse I'm on a layover in Seattle. Ouch!
Denny
12-24-2012, 03:18 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by johnso29
The way they're playing, I don't see how they won't take the NFC. They've come alive big time. I was hoping they'd both lose last night.
Signed, a bitter STL Lambs..I mean Rams fan.
Signed, a bitter STL Lambs..I mean Rams fan.
They have come alive in the last few weeks. Russell Wilson has got to be one of the top contenders for Rookie of the Year. I'm afraid though that playing in Seattle away from the media hype is not going to work in his favor and there are a couple other contenders too.....
Denny
12-24-2012, 03:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by buzzpat
SEA weakness is going on the road. They'll have to do that for sure as a wild card. I know a team that really wants to see them in the playoffs...my Packers. The Fail Mary is still fresh.
Buzz I'll admit that was a verrrrrry questionable call.
But this is a whole n'other team than in the beginning of the season. They seem to be peaking at the right time and are winning on the road now. I'd certainly like to see a re-match of the Packers and 'Hawks in the NFC Championship game!!!Denny
12-24-2012, 03:26 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Buzz I'll admit that was a verrrrrry questionable call. But this is a whole n'other team than in the beginning of the season. They seem to be peaking at the right time and are winning on the road now. I'd certainly like to see a re-match of the Packers and 'Hawks in the NFC Championship game!!!
Denny
But this is a whole n'other team than in the beginning of the season. They seem to be peaking at the right time and are winning on the road now. I'd certainly like to see a re-match of the Packers and 'Hawks in the NFC Championship game!!!Denny
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