Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 1349344)

Do you feel like dollar for dollar we as pilots got a good deal out of that trade? We got a small payback for what amounts to a huge savings to the company. ALPA gave that away, we should have gotten more. Pathetic.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1349298)

I don't know if this is true. I heard rolling thunder happened because the company changed what green slips were worth to line holders, but did not change what they were worth to reserves. This caused the line holders to stop green slipping. The by-product was that almost all green slips went to the reserves which lead to rolling thunder. This won't happen now as line holders get most of the green slips due to seniority. It's hard to get more than one green slip these days as a junior pilot.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1349362)

Can I watch episodes on netflix?

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1349362)

Can I watch episodes on netflix?

Originally Posted by Falcon7 (Post 1349367)

That sums it up.

I guess I don't understand all the hand wringing by some here. All this cost neutral stuff makes no sense. I'm an hourly employee, I'm making more per hour and it appears more work is coming to the mainline vs. the DCI pilots. How is that a bad thing?

Originally Posted by Jay5150 (Post 1349343)

I think that when green slips to line holders dropped to 1.5 it certainly affected it. But the biggest drivers, by far, of the thunder are:

1. Being short in a category (shorter the better)

2. Getting the payback days.

The summer of '07 and to a little lesser extent '08 was unbelievable. (ER in NYC). I didn't really try that hard as a commuter and also because I didn't fully realize how rare the situation was. Still, my best month was 146 credit for 76 block and ended the year with an extra 23 days vacation for the next year. I heard a rumor of an FO who did back-to-back 200 hour credit months.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1349310)

That's the truth.

I made almost 10,000 less dollars in 2012 than I did in 2011! Although a major part of that is getting pushed back to no chance of holding a line on fifi.

Sigh...What a fall... occasional lineholder on the 767 in ATL in 08/09 to dangling on the bottom of the 320 in 2013. +717! ;)

Originally Posted by hammer189 (Post 1349463)

Rolling thunder was not "given away", it simply stopped working because we are overstaffed. In the summer months when (if) we are short it will work again.

Originally Posted by Jinks (Post 1349329)

Ah, Mrs. Peel. I wonder if Mr. Steed ever got some of that?

Jinks

Originally Posted by Ferd149 (Post 1348961)

Ahhhhhhhhh you young whipper snappers get off my lawn. While cute, a real woman ...............well never mind

Ok, only Scambo and I probably know who she is anyway:cool:

http://hilobrow.com/wp-content/uploa...na_rigg_01.jpg

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1349193)

I agree the scam ship has largely sailed.

Awhile back, when rolling thunder was discovered as a little scam, I was actually schooled about it early on, by one of the greatest and recently retired schedulers during my tenure. I think it took about 3-4 months of doing it before DALPA gave it back...yes, gave. So you ask, what am I willing to give up...Nothing. What is my collective bargaining agent willing to give up? Seemingly everything that makes unionization worth paying for.

Originally Posted by dalad (Post 1349246)

For all you boob lovers-side, under and over, it's Carnival time in Rio.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1349328)

No, what's really good is that the pilot group is much smarter than you think. Rather than get bamboozled by your type of mindless propaganda, they could apply the most basic principles of common sense and Econ 101 to realize that this was a great deal.

Let's just examine some basic facts. In rough justice numbers, Delta pilots generate about $36 billion in revenue every year and cost the company about $2 billion. So when Delta adds flying to mainline they don't expect revenue neutrality they expect you to add revenue on a 18 to 1 basis from your cost. Seriously, is this a surprise to anyone that has had even a week's worth of economics instruction. Even a second grader running a lemonade stands knows she needs to generate more revenue than costs in order to make a profit. Delta Air Lines is a capitalistic organization it is not a charity operation.

So in this deal, there were costs shifted from RJ maintenance to pilot salaries and benefits and acquisition of new aircraft. They expect that in the end it is not profit neutral, but that they generate more profits. That is the reason that people invested billions of dollars in Delta Air Lines, they want to make a profit. Right, please someone stop me if I am moving too fast here, because this all seems pretty basic. When Delta buys new aircraft they expect them to be self financing also. Why else would anyone invest billions in new aluminum if they didn't think that the aircraft would generate revenue that would pay the cost of acquisition, the cost of operations, and every other cost, and THEN GENERATE A PROFIT. Once again, these are the most basic of facts, people start capitalistic businesses to make money.

So, the idea that pilots will capture all of the revenue they generate is insane. The idea that pilots will capture all of the profits of a company is insane. The idea that management wants to generate a business plan to increase profits should pretty much fall in the DUHHHHHHH category. If along the way we can make a deal that adds a billion dollars into our pockets while allowing Delta to reduce other costs and generate more revenue, that is a no brainer.

So, we are fortunate that pilots are not easily fooled by this type of mindless propaganda. By an overwhelming majority, they saw through this type of sham argument and saw that adding mainline flying, adding vacation, adding reserve guarantee pay, increasing pay rates by 20%, increasing retirement income, and numerous other improvements just made sense. In fact, it wasn't even close.

So rather than substitute their own good judgement for mindless internet bloviation, they used their intelligence and common sense to make what really is an easy decision. More mainline flying, more pay, more benefits, works for me.