Is it Delta flying or is it Pinnacle flying? If it's Delta flying that is being done by another company in violation of our Section 1, then we'd better grieve it immediately.

If the Pinnacle pilot group negotiated a percentage of the RJ flying already allowed by our Section 1, then it is not necessarily Delta flying.....and they are just trying to guarantee some job security for which I don't blame them.

I don't necessarily like it but I don't see anything that is not contractually allowed going on.

Denny

They say when evaluating someone's character observe how they treat others. With regard to this last contract, too many Delta pilots truly believed they were the chosen ones to fly for Delta, management would never want somene else (wear your hats). Of course Delta has been whipsawing the regionals for ages, why anyone would think we are immune is beyond me. Welcome to Sky Team, this ship already sank.

You're misunderstanding the issue. Another ALPA pilot group has successfully negotiated for and gotten DL flying contractually guaranteed without any DALPA input..

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So nothing was changed in the DPWA but now another airline has negotiated a certain amount of RJ flying. Does SkyWest have an agreement with Delta to perform RJ flying? Does Mesaba? What's the real difference if it's negotiated with the managements or the pilots? Contracts come up for renewal and can be renegotiated.

I agree that it makes it that much harder to reel in scope and that sucks. Bringing regional jet flying to mainline would be ideal and I wouldn't be surprised to see it curtailed more in the next ten to twenty years with the hiring that's going to be done at all the majors on top of the new 1500 hour ATP requirement. On the whole, I feel it's moving in the right direction slowly but surely. My two cents.....

Denny

I don't think I am misunderstanding the issue. When I first entered this conversation it was to ask: What changes were made to the DPWA as a result of the agreement between Delta Management and the Pinnacle pilots? As far as I can tell..................nothing.

As far as the issue you state above, I DO think it was a bad precedent that another pilot group negotiated with Delta Management. Now do I think that our contract was violated by this separate agreement? No, I don't. Our contract allows for a certain percentage of RJ flying up to 76 seats by other companies. You are characterizing it as DL flying when, contractually, we have allowed this flying to be outsourced for years and the Pinnacle guys negotiated for their share of it.

Denny

"DL flying" that we've contractually negotiated away... If we contractually do not fly 76 or less seat jets, how do we have any say in who or what accomplishes that flying for DL?

I'm not sure if our contract guarantees us to be the only pilot group negotiating with DL mgmt... would be interesting to see.

The precedent set is a terrible one, but it's not surprising that Moak would take another MEC chair by the hand and go whistling right on by DALPA. Moak does what Moak wants, and has shown time and again he will do just that.

The issue is that we are supposedly in "scope recovery" and supposedly whittling down the amount of RJs- hopefully more in C2015. Now 9E has in their ALPA pilot contract a guaranteed not insignificant amount of DL jumbo RJs for 7 years. That is a very bad thing.

That is incorrect saying that we contractually do not fly 76 or less seat jets. We have pay rates for that aircraft type in our contract that 9E pilots are now contractually guaranteed to fly for the next 7 years.

It's not that we can't do the 76 seat flying via our contract, it's that we currently allow a certain amount of its outsourcing. Those are two very different things!

Actually.....I wouldn't. I'd get my car fixed and move on with my life. I've better things to do then fester and harp over what could've been. The problem with your analogy is that the system isn't broken. Everything we have is ours because as a group we approved it. Over 60% of our pilot group voted YES for this latest TA. And now it's our contract. Done. Over. We can't change it.

So while I enjoy and encourage sharing thoughts, I don't enjoy reading the same gripes, moans, and complaints about what is done. Choosing to not fly ALV+15 is now gone. The RJ scope has been changed. Over. We can either unite and decide how we want to fix it, or continue to mindlessly whine over something that 62% of our pilot group thought wasn't a bad deal.

If people on this board want to chew someone's ear off about scope, head over to the Alaska TA thread. Their NC decided to protect $$$ & their pilots in a merger scenario instead of establishing scope protection. Nothing stops Skypest, RAH, etc from flying 100 seat RJs as Alaska. NOTHING. And that's what THEIR NC chose.

FTB, I quoted you but this post isn't directed at only you.

Flame away. I'm used to it by now. :D

Yeah, and Ferd and his sissy cats can shove it and go fly the F-16 or whatever.







:D